NHS Fail

Dolph said:
Keep telling yourself that, it's easy to believe from inside the bubble I guess.

Meanwhile, those of us with exposure to modern working practices, embracing of modern technology and so on will keep hoping the nhs at least considers moving into the current century.

Note, I'm not talking about treatments etc, but the actual business practices.
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What modern technology are they not embracing?
 
joeyjojo said:
Like allowing hospitals to make 49% of their income from private patients? Compulsory tender to the private sector for contracts? That kind of thing?
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More like having large number of administration staff being paid well over market rate with excessive pension entitlements doing jobs that have been automated elsewhere or could be much more efficiently pooled.

Paying people to push trolleys of paper notes round because of the refusal to embrace modern technology.

Just two simple examples.

The problem is the workforce refuses to change.
 
Xordium said:
Makes me laugh all this manage it properly business. I would love to give all the muppets who come out with that stuff 5 grand a year wage - tell them to take care of their family, pay for overpriced rented accommodation, and sort everything else and then constantly tell them "manage your budget" and see how they take it.

Because that is essentially what is happening here. It's a funding shortfall that causes this not mismanagement.

I've seen more mismanagement in private health care in this country than the public.



Might want to check if that is actually occurring before stating it to be the case.
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My best mate who works for the nhs has received his raise every year and recently went up a band due to topping out the last one. So yes, I can confirm it.
His department was over budget and missed the majority of its targets.
 
*Moangroan* said:
Its not about cash.


How much is trident ??? And then they say they cannot afford to provide superior health care.

I think you will find its more important to have submarines than health. Are you folks serious. Come on get behind the gubberment on this.
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Trident total projected cost over its 40 year lifespan wouldn't cover the nhs for two years...
 
amigafan2003 said:
Not true - you have to meet a required level of performance at your performance review to get the band increase.
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That's true on paper. However it's not judged by someone impartial. It's an internal performance review. So you can guess what normally happens...
Also having seen some of the targets they are shockingly low.
 
Dis86 said:
My best mate who works for the nhs has received his raise every year and recently went up a band due to topping out the last one. So yes, I can confirm it.
His department was over budget and missed the majority of its targets.
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You don't go up a grade because you've topped it ... :D:D:D:D:D

Anything else you want to make up. Or shall we ignore performance reviews to set criteria before going through the gateways and all that kind of stuff.

Edit: read the post above now I know you're just making this stuff or listening to someone who's pulling your leg. Knock yourself out in cloud****oo land.
 
Dis86 said:
That's true on paper. However it's not judged by someone impartial. It's an internal performance review. So you can guess what normally happens...
Also having seen some of the targets they are shockingly low.
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I think you'll find the NHS suffers with unjustified down marking at performance reviews (google bell curve), rather than giving higher than deserved evaluations.
 
Dolph said:
More like having large number of administration staff being paid well over market rate with excessive pension entitlements doing jobs that have been automated elsewhere or could be much more efficiently pooled.

Paying people to push trolleys of paper notes round because of the refusal to embrace modern technology.

Just two simple examples.

The problem is the workforce refuses to change.
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You're aware aren't you that before marketisation started the NHS spent less on administration (5%) than any other health system in the world? And since private providers were brought in that percentage jumped to 14%. That's about £10 billion a year wasted to please ministers' mates in private healthcare.

It's a great idea to reduce money wasted in admin but the NHS was already incredibly efficient.

The "problem" isn't the workforce, it's the recent governments.

Source for those numbers: https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournh...ns-of-wasted-nhs-cash-no one-wants-to-mention
 
joeyjojo said:
You're aware aren't you that before marketisation started the NHS spent less on administration (5%) than any other health system in the world? And since private providers were brought in that percentage jumped to 14%.

It's a great idea to reduce money wasted in admin but the NHS was already incredibly efficient.

The "problem" isn't the workforce, it's the recent governments.

Source for those numbers: https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournh...ns-of-wasted-nhs-cash-no one-wants-to-mention
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I think you will find the Kings Fund study 2008 based on information from god knows how many years early totally and I mean totally disproves anything positive to say about the NHS. :p
 
The argument of under funding may be valid but the simple fact is in any business with cash flow problems is they cut their cloth accordingly and find ways to adapt and get better. From the outside looking in (and with anecdotal evidence from friends/family who work in the service) there seems to just be no willing to improve, the solution seems to be keep demanding more. That isn't reality, even if it was met halfway and improvements were made alongside funding increases it might help but there is nothing (again from the outside looking in)

One thing they could do instantly is remove all plastic surgery & weight loss stuff, I don't know what the spending is on these services but I don't understand why they are offered free of charge.

my wife was in hospital for a few nights on the menu she had a choice of about 8 meals, simplify the menu to cut costs (you can bulk buy to reduce expenditure)

Why not stop using agency staff? I know they do vital jobs but if you give them a choice of a full time job or not a penny into their bank they would probably fold.

I'm not in the NHS and that took 2 seconds thought so I'm certain if there was a real, in depth review they could sort it out. I do change management and I know without seeing a single thing inside the NHS I could save huge amount of money with very little effort. You can do that in any business that hasn't been heavily leaned and I would hazard there is only one type of leaning the NHS know about (**** joke, sorry :p)
 
What does everyone have against privatisation? It might mean people actually have to work for a living rather than have children for a living
 
No1newts said:
One thing they could do instantly is remove all plastic surgery & weight loss stuff, I don't know what the spending is on these services but I don't understand why they are offered free of charge.
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I don't think you or I know enough about the NHS to have sensible suggestions for their efficiency savings. But I do know this is not a good one.

Plastic surgery is mainly about fixing birth defects, cancer damage, burns, and other disfigurements. I think you'll agree these are good things to offer people for free. Maybe you're thinking of cosmetic surgery? The NHS doesn't (usually) offer cosmetic surgery.

As for weight loss, it's a bit like trying to prevent people smoking. Spending money on stopping people smoking is great value as it saves money later on rather than dealing with complications (cardiovascular disease, cancer). Same thing with weight loss (diabetes, amputations, blindness).

Roar87 said:
What does everyone have against privatisation? It might mean people actually have to work for a living rather than have children for a living
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You are the most moronic poster on this forum. Back to my ignore list you go.
 
My hospital can't cope because of the influx from the EU.
They are not allowed to turn them away so operations get push back.

I'm hoping when we leave in 2018 things will get better.
 
Dis86 said:
My best mate who works for the nhs has received his raise every year and recently went up a band due to topping out the last one. So yes, I can confirm it.
His department was over budget and missed the majority of its targets.
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That's not how the agenda for change pay scale works. You move up increments on an annual basis, until you reach the top of the scale. If you're already at the top you receive NO rise.

Also, you don't automatically move up a band. You stay there until you get promoted. I know people that have been "stuck" on the top of the scale for years... Effectively losing money with the increased living costs.
 
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