Brexit thread - what happens next

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platypus said:
You edited them in..^
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Yes, but I hit the edit button before you replied, I could see where you were going with your false equivalency.

platypus said:
194,000 according to the ONS; so where are these "millions"?
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Got my births figures here, and death figures here (ONS), rounded both up and minused deaths from births (700k - 530k). Either way, it's still a lot less than the 3300k net migration figure and hence silly to suggest we [by which I mean people who care about population increase] should ignore immigration and concentrate on sterilization, as you did.
 
platypus said:
You said that your reason for voting to leave was immigration. The lies told by the leave campaign were that we would do something about immigration, exposed within minutes of the vote by the leading proponents of the leave campaign because no one has any intention of doing anything about it.

So you never expected immigration to stop, but voted because of immigration. Not really much of a solid platform on which to base a vote, is it?

An aside really, but how do you expect the government is going to come up with a strategy to meet the "wants" of the people?

Wait - I thought you voted because of immigration? You've contradicted yourself here somewhat. If you know nothing will change, what an earth did you vote for...

...Was it to make sure your town loses its funding through its Assisted Area status that it received from the EU? Or the funding it receives from the EU Fisheries fund? As that is what will surely happen.
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The campaign had nothing to do with it, I have thought that free movement was a bad thing for a long time.

I said I had no faith in the government due to the way its elections and promises are handled, i'd love to be proved wrong - and don't they always say if you don't vote you don't get to moan (which I don't think i've done, merely stated what I would like to see achieved) :)

Would not have a clue about the strategy, not my job and I did say 'supposed wants' deliberately. I know what I want to happen, other people want different things.

Choice to leave EU as nothing could change whilst still in it, my poor wording.

I had no personal experience with the benefits of assisted funding however the population here has certainly risen over the last few years so not surprised we qualified for it. I hope the government provides schemes with any potential money saved to keep things like this going within the UK once we have left. I voted to do the only thing I could to have any impact on a change to immigration, but i've already said that.

I did spend time emphasising in my posts its personal opinion and experience, you don't need to pick everything apart as I think I really had decided what I was going to do long before this whole thing started. And if nothing else has been shown by this whole fiasco knowone, so far, really seems to know anything government or otherwise.

But if you still want to provoke, some of the others might be interested and you can bicker about this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...-children-in-Britain-doubles-in-a-decade.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...and-Wales-are-Muslim-census-figures-show.html
 
datalol-jack said:
Well, imagine this situation: you want to drop net to tens of thousands; each major category -- workers, families and students -- is already pushing up at the limits; whom do you drop? Is that fair? Will it make the nation 'open to business and facing outwards' in the eyes of our nearest and most crucial allies and trade partners?

If less people leave in any given year than expected, would you damage the economy, disrupt families or arbitrarily increase income requirements to catch up? Would you simply nudge the quota up and up until it basically settles at the same level market demands, if so then what was the point of the extra administrative hassles, controls and expense when other things need the cash? And, just to add insult to injury, a swathe of economic projections from pension contributions to growth you have to rely on assumes 1 million arrivals as the baseline, or thereabouts.

Yeah. Rhetoric time!
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Dear Mr UK citizen.

We are sorry to tell you that you will not be able to bring your wife and child into the UK this year as all immigration visas have gone to bricklayers, engineers and IT workers. Please apply another year (perhaps during a recession, when there are more likely to be spaces).

Sincerely

UK Government
 
nkata said:
I still feel good about it , let's see how it works out longer term.

It is a ridiculous state where the UK population increases by a million every two years through births and immigration.

It not only puts a strain on housing and services, but to properly provide all those homes, hospitals, roads, railways, factories, airports etc. it takes up a ****load of the country.
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It should also increase tax revenue, which should go towards paying for more and better hospitals, roads, railways, factories, airports etc.

If the government aren't putting those extra tax revenues towards them then you need to complain to the government.
 
Why should the fact you are married to someone already in the country put you higher on the list? It's this kind of policy that gave us such insane inflation of numbers from the 90s, there is little advantage to us to import a mother and x kids that will only cost the state (unless they are wealthy/skilled worker in which case they get in on merit not happened to be married).
 
Nate--IRL-- said:
I think argument is that it's unlikely that restrictions on numbers will be made any lower than the current levels.

Nate
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This.

If we stop free movement from the EU much of the difference will be taken up by an increase in immigration through the tier system for non EU migrants. Ergo a gross migration figure not much lower than we have now. Net may be compounded by a reduction in Brits leaving due to new restrictions imposed on working in the EU.

So all in all I wouldn't be surprised if net migration went up if we pulled out of free movement. (That's not me saying it will, just it wouldn't be surprising).

Obviously of there was a recession migration may go down, but then I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue there.
 
phil675 said:
Why should the fact you are married to someone already in the country put you higher on the list? It's this kind of policy that gave us such insane inflation of numbers from the 90s, there is little advantage to us to import a mother and x kids that will only cost the state (unless they are wealthy/skilled worker in which case they get in on merit not happened to be married).
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I'm sorry. Are you arguing against family visas here?
 
silversurfer said:
Seems an entirely reasonable route to have open. Instead of paying some borderline murderers to smuggle you into a country, just learn to lay bricks and come in legally.
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Eh?

EU citizens don't have to be smuggled in at the moment.

Leaving the EU is not going to make a hot of difference to illegal immigration.
 
phil675 said:
Why should the fact you are married to someone already in the country put you higher on the list? It's this kind of policy that gave us such insane inflation of numbers from the 90s, there is little advantage to us to import a mother and x kids that will only cost the state (unless they are wealthy/skilled worker in which case they get in on merit not happened to be married).
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So families shouldn't be allowed to be together?
 
Zethor said:
I prefer to avoid putting the lazy label on large groups of people. The poor and the low skilled are angry, yes but the underlying causes are linked to govt. policies. The financial crisis was difficult for everyone but the rich and the highly skilled had more tools to protect themselves from the fallout where as the poor and the low skilled had to absord the shocks directly.

The US politicians responded with a stimulus plan while the Europeans chose austerity. The stimulus plan was a bit more effective at generating growth but both policies failed in the sense that all of the post crisis growth was felt mainly by the rich and, to a lesser extent, the highly skilled. So now we have lots of frustrated people that are indeed left behind.

Angry, desperate people often turn to easy, quick fix solutions: the Mexicans or the Muslims or the EU did it. The tabloids are selling well, the populists gain political capital but everyone loses.

Unless the policies start shifting towards better redistribution of wealth, the anger and frustration will only increase and the populists will become nastier. So that's the only solution at the moment, giving these groups of people a larger piece of the pie.
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bottom line the populists will get worse then, because Tory governments are not exactly renowned for their wealth re-distribution policies and we have just got one that is possibly as far to the right as we have ever seen for decades.
 
Faustus said:
Yes I think this is a bad policy - you need to disincentivise people for staying long term, or at all. :eek:
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But we take their money, labour, skills, ideas and businesses? Great deal that! Such a magnificent, GDP-pumping racket, and everyone'd wanna come falling over themselves to strike this bargain of bargains. We're geniuses! Who woudda thunk it! Get on the blower to the Home Office, we're going in with the white paper first thing in the morning.:p
 
phil675 said:
Why does a family tie trump anything else? The person who moved here wasn't forced to do so. What makes them deserving other than they won the marriage lottery?
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Because their partner is a British citizen and British citizens should be allowed to live with the people they love in Britain.
 
Mr Jack said:
Because their partner is a British citizen and British citizens should be allowed to live with the people they love in Britain.
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I recall this being a particular issue in the referendum -- people being treated equally in relation to bringing families and partners over. Surely instead of a silly crackdown we should now take a hard look at the system and reform it to benefit everyone and diffuse community tensions? Oh wait, that needs a modicum of respect for human rights. :rolleyes: Nevermind then.
 
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