Twitter: Being black and fat trumps being gay and white

cheesyboy said:
It's not as simple as that - you can't 'role reversal' the tweets, because being white is not historically, and presently, persecuted or otherwise disadvantaged. Like it or not, white people, as a whole, are in a position of privilege. So when a black comic makes fun of white people, it's coming from a different position to a white comedian doing the same about black people.

It's not hard to understand, and yet people seem to deliberately walk blindly through it to the most reductive answer.

It is offensive to compare black people to apes, as has happened with LJ, as that has been part of a narrative of black suppression for decades, centuries, which is still ongoing. An equivalent 'white' joke just doesn't have that weight of history behind it to cause offence.
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Oh my god. Your first paragraph. So because as a white male I cant feel racism.

Did Milo compare Jones to an ape? Yes or No? (awaits no answer given or change tact).

Cheesyboy: The year is 2016. The slave trade is history. We should not forget it but giving special victim status to it in todays world is just psychotic.

Again you saying racism cannot be done against white people... Well racism cant be done against black people!
 
VincentHanna said:
Also the very thread title mentions her being "Fat and Black"

Surely a less provocative title would be: "Being black and straight trumps being white and gay"

Otherwise you're basically insulting Leslie Jones before you've even started and making you position crystal clear.
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Overweight and black would be an accurate term. There is no lie to this. Or is this hurting feelings of fat people?
 
"I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express."

https://xkcd.com/1357/
 
cheesyboy said:
It's not as simple as that - you can't 'role reversal' the tweets, because being white is not historically, and presently, persecuted or otherwise disadvantaged. Like it or not, white people, as a whole, are in a position of privilege. So when a black comic makes fun of white people, it's coming from a different position to a white comedian doing the same about black people.

It's not hard to understand, and yet people seem to deliberately walk blindly through it to the most reductive answer.

It is offensive to compare black people to apes, as has happened with LJ, as that has been part of a narrative of black suppression for decades, centuries, which is still ongoing. An equivalent 'white' joke just doesn't have that weight of history behind it to cause offence.
Click to expand...

RaohNS said:
Oh my god. Your first paragraph. So because as a white male I cant feel racism.

Did Milo compare Jones to an ape? Yes or No? (awaits no answer given or change tact).

Cheesyboy: The year is 2016. The slave trade is history. We should not forget it but giving special victim status to it in todays world is just psychotic.

Again you saying racism cannot be done against white people... Well racism cant be done against black people!
Click to expand...

You've basically just been proved right by being reductive.

Yes white people can feel racism, but I've never personally felt like i've been treated differently because I am white.

Sadly, Friends I have who are in minorities do get racism often, even in minor ways.
 
Tunney said:
Milo is the tech editor of a semi-popular website and makes occasional TV appearances. He'll still get to be part of the conversation.

Do you think that OCuk should allow anything and everything in the name of 'free speech'?
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If people think internet services run by private corporations fall under the right to free speech....what the hell are they doing on the OCUK forums? The TOS on here are positively draconian compared to Twitter!

Private companies can largely do whatever they like to maintain whatever kind of community they like. Milo has no 'right' to a Twitter account.
 
VincentHanna said:
You've basically just been proved right by being reductive.

Yes white people can feel racism, but I've never personally been racially attacked.

Sadly, Friends I have who are in minorities get it often, even in minor ways.
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I've had racist remarks thrown at me. Big shoulders can deal with it. Being called a racist to me these days (even if I did hold those views) wouldn't mean jack. There's truly being racist and then there is telling the truth. Saying a harsh truth like proportionally black people commit more crime is apparently racist to thick people.
 
RaohNS said:
Oh my god. Your first paragraph. So because as a white male I cant feel racism.
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No, but feeling racism at those particular tweets is a bit of a stretch. Unless you're actively trying to feel such (and why would you be?)

RaohNS said:
Did Milo compare Jones to an ape? Yes or No? (awaits no answer given or change tact).
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No idea, but someone did. It's not really relevant to my line of argument though (read back).

RaohNS said:
Cheesyboy: The year is 2016. The slave trade is history. We should not forget it but giving special victim status to it in todays world is just psychotic.
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Who's giving special victim status to it? Black people are measurably disadvantaged compared with white, and have historically been much more so.

RaohNS said:
Again you saying racism cannot be done against white people... Well racism cant be done against black people!
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Are you bringing out the playground beatdowns here :confused:
 
VincentHanna said:
You've basically just been proved right by being reductive.

Yes white people can feel racism, but I've never personally felt like i've been treated differently because I am white.

Sadly, Friends I have who are in minorities do get racism often, even in minor ways.
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Is that not simply because they are in minorities? If you went somewhere where whites where a minority would you not be likely to face racist abuse? Maybe we should agree that racism is equally stupid regardless of who the racist is.
 
VincentHanna said:
My point was, what has her weight got to do with Milo being banned from Twitter? Nothing, ergo it's an insult for no reason.
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Is the woman overweight?

You do know (and I do from having afro-Caribbean friends) that being fat is a sign of health and considered beautiful. Is she beautiful and fat or is she fat and ugly or is she fat and we will use a predetermined perception of what fat should be.

That's a neo-liberals worst nightmare question to answer lulz
 
mid_gen said:
If people think internet services run by private corporations fall under the right to free speech....what the hell are they doing on the OCUK forums? The TOS on here are positively draconian compared to Twitter!

Private companies can largely do whatever they like to maintain whatever kind of community they like. Milo has no 'right' to a Twitter account.
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There's a middle ground, in my opinion. People should be judged based on what they do rather than who they are.

Banned for being gay? Not cool.
Banned for being black? Not cool.
Banned for repeatedly breaking the rules? I'm OK with that.
 
Tunney said:
Milo is the tech editor of a semi-popular website and makes occasional TV appearances. He'll still get to be part of the conversation.
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That hardly addresses the general argument that the majority of public debate now takes place under the control of private companies and they have the power to marginalize the voices of those they disagree with or dislike. Milo is hardly the posterchild for the case against censorship, but like Voltaire, I'll defend the right of even idiots to voice their opinions. People, and you did this, diminish the suppression of opinion by the citing that censorship is about government stopping people talking, not affecting the right to hear. I am pointing out that by any practical measure, private companies have huge power to stop people participating in public debate and saying censorship laws don't apply does nothing to counter the observation that this is a very dangerous situation we are in.

Tunney said:
Do you think that OCuk should allow anything and everything in the name of 'free speech'?
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Tell you what, I'll answer that when you answer me as to why your question isn't just an argument ad absurdum.
 
mid_gen said:
Private companies can largely do whatever they like to maintain whatever kind of community they like. Milo has no 'right' to a Twitter account.
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^

The free speech argument is stupid and irrelevant. Free speech does not mean you get to say what you like, when you like, how you like to who you like. No ones rights are getting removed.


If the majority of peoples debates take place on a bias platform, then likely because the users are skewed that way. If not, then there is a niche for another platform. Twitter is not pushing any political views but are trying to appease the majority of the customer base.
 
Crpwned said:
"I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express."
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I'm not defending their position by citing free speech. I'm defending free speech.

"A witty XKCD cartoon proves nothing" -- Voltaire.
 
Can't we all at least agree that Milo Yiannopoulos is a colossal asshat human being and then go back to debating whether his turdishness should be tolerated by twitter? I mean, let's go straight to the source, right?

5tlmtkN.jpg


Yay!

Oh.
 
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