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Nvidia 900's now legacy

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Looks like the async update for my GTX960 won't appear now!!:p
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The async update came out like 6 months ago. It up to developers to implement an async code path that is appropriate for the architecture. Fable Legends showed good performance boost from Async on Maxwell, shame it was cancelled.
 
It sure sounds like a few AMD fans try their best to make Nvidia cards look bad. Unfortunately for them some of us can see right through it.

For example, the fact that AMD cards get better over time can also be seen as proof that AMD drivers are still so bad that it takes them years to come up with something which finally works. GPUs don't get better over time, it's just drivers that change.

Horrendous drivers is the main reason I stopped buying AMD cards years ago. It looks like not much has changed, unfortunately.
 
Griffildur said:
It sure sounds like a few AMD fans try their best to make Nvidia cards look bad. Unfortunately for them some of us can see right through it.

For example, the fact that AMD cards get better over time can also be seen as proof that AMD drivers are still so bad that it takes them years to come up with something which finally works. GPUs don't get better over time, it's just drivers that change.

Horrendous drivers is the main reason I stopped buying AMD cards years ago. It looks like not much has changed, unfortunately.
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LOL and nivida people like you trot out that same old line time after time. AMD drivers are bad, yet completely ignoring the sorry state of Nvidia drivers. Both sides aren't great and you would have to have totally red/green tinted glasses on not to see that.

And beside where in this thread are people making Nvidia cards look bad? Most of the slating is against the AMD cards, the fury line. But I don't see you jumping to AMD's defence? How about that?
 
melmac said:
LOL and nivida people like you trot out that same old line time after time. AMD drivers are bad, yet completely ignoring the sorry state of Nvidia drivers. Both sides aren't great and you would have to have totally red/green tinted glasses on not to see that.

And beside where in this thread are people making Nvidia cards look bad? Most of the slating is against the AMD cards, the fury line. But I don't see you jumping to AMD's defence? How about that?
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Well, there's a lot of talk how Nvidia cards get bad over time and how AMD cards get great over time. We have talks of driver gimping apparently at work as well. I don't agree with that and explained why. As for both sides not being great, I can't really disagree there, both could do more, a lot more.

I could sum up the entire situation like this :

1. AMD cards run hotter, use more power, are noisier and have really bad drivers which allow a card to actually show what it can actually do after years of updates. They are cheaper however.

2. Nvidia - the cards run as well as they can from day 1. drivers and updates don't change that much as there is not much left to gain. They are more expensive than AMD cards.

There is no such thing as legacy or no support or driver gimping.

Just pick your poison basically.

Anything I've missed?
 
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It depends - the HD7870 and GTX660 were not far off in performance/watt from each other and the HD7870 ended up lasting longer. OTH,from the R7 260X onwards,performance/watt got worse on the AMD side and got better on the Nvidia side.

At least looking at a reference RX480 and a reference GTX1060 the difference is nowhere as big as the R9 285 and the GTX960,but AMD needed a larger jump in performance/watt with Polaris than Nvidia for them to be comparable in the midrange.

It will be interesting to see if the RX470 and RX460 do have better performance/watt than the RX480.

The temperature issue is not really a big deal - the Nvidia 9800GT,etc were rated to 105C and many older generation cards had single slot coolers so could run quite hot.
 
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Griffildur said:
Well, there's a lot of talk how Nvidia cards get bad over time and how AMD cards get great over time. We have talks of driver gimping apparently at work as well. I don't agree with that and explained why. As for both sides not being great, I can't really disagree there, both could do more, a lot more.

I could sum up the entire situation like this :

1. AMD cards run hotter, use more power and have really bad drivers which allow a card to actually show what it can actually do after years of updates. They are cheaper however.

2. Nvidia - the cards run as well as they can from day 1. drivers and updates don't change that much as there is not much left to gain. They are more expensive than AMD cards.
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Notice that you didn't say really bad drivers for Nvidia. You must have forgot.

So I guess what you are saying is that there is going to be no improvement for Dx12 or Vulkan or Dx11 in future for Nvidia cards out now. Shame, I just bought a 1070.

That means the 480 only slightly behind the 1060 at the moment in Dx11 and well out in front in Dx12 and Vulkan will completely wipe the floor with the 1060 after a few driver updates.

Power use, For the last few generations yeah AMD cards have been poor.

Hotter, I don't agree with, just depends on cooler used. Reference coolers have usually been pretty bad for both sides, which is why most people recommend after market cards.

And AMD might take a few drivers updates to get up to speed, but, that hasn't stopped them going toe to toe with Nvidia cards on release. Like the 7970 was on par with the 680. The 290x was neck and neck with the Titan. AMD's biggest driver weakness has been crossfire.
 
D.P. said:
The async update came out like 6 months ago. It up to developers to implement an async code path that is appropriate for the architecture. Fable Legends showed good performance boost from Async on Maxwell, shame it was cancelled.
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A Futuremark developer recently said that asynchronous compute is explicitly disabled by Nvidia at a driver level on Maxwell cards as of this month.

The reason Maxwell doesn't take a hit is because NVIDIA has explictly disabled async compute in Maxwell drivers. So no matter how much we pile things to the queues, they cannot be set to run asynchronously because the driver says "no, I can't do that". Basically NV driver tells Time Spy to go "async off" for the run on that card. NV driver runs asynchronous tasks in one queue on Maxwell, similar to if they were submitted in one queue ("async off" in Time Spy). If NVIDIA enables Async Compute in the drivers on Maxwell, Time Spy will start using it. Performance gain or loss depends on the hardware & drivers.
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https://steamcommunity.com/app/223850/discussions/0/366298942110944664/
 
D.P. said:
The async update came out like 6 months ago. It up to developers to implement an async code path that is appropriate for the architecture. Fable Legends showed good performance boost from Async on Maxwell, shame it was cancelled.
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According to NVIDIA Maxwell has no driver support for Async. PcPer even spoke to NVIDIA about it and they confirmed async compute was not enabled at the driver level.

FutureMark found that the NV driver actually prevents anything related to Async to avoid a performance hit.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...Looking-DX12-Asynchronous-Compute-Performance

Now, let’s talk about the bad news: Maxwell.
In my discussion with NVIDIA about this topic, I was told that async compute support isn’t enabled at the driver level for Maxwell hardware, and that it would require both the driver and the game engine to be coded for that capability specifically.

To me, and this is just a guess based on history and my talks with NVIDIA, I think there is some ability to run work asynchronously in Maxwell but it will likely never see the light of day. If NVIDIA were going to enable it, they would have done so for the first wave of DX12 titles that used it (Ashes of the Singularity, Hitman) or at the very least for 3DMark Time Spy – an application that the company knows will be adopted by nearly every reviewer immediately and will be used for years.
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