Poll: Feminism and relationships

[TheBDog]

Same here.

And she doesn't waste time on internet chatrooms like I do

Like I usually say in threads like these, people need to get away from their echo chambers and experience life in the real World.

These things do tend to go in circles. And often it's like talking to a brick wall.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother it feels a little wasted when you can't get people to even consider your point of view.

Le sigh.

 

[VincentHanna]

That's the internet for you.

 

[Roar87]

Live somewhere where men and women are treated fairly equally in the workplace across all levels and professions. It's mind blowing for a while but then you realize it makes complete sense.

But they are, women have more degrees, better exam results, and women under 30 earn more than men. Obviously you'd expect that trend to continue some what, in which case the tables will be reversed and it'll be men who are earning less

 

[No1newts]

So I've landed myself in a relationship with someone who I've only recently found out claims to be a feminist although I can't see what she does actively to support this, however the issue is when having debates about the issues, most of the time I can shut her points down or at least explain why they aren't as clear cut as she thinks, wage gap for example.

It's gotten to the point where it just winds her up and she'll go in a one over it.

So should I:

1. Stop bringing it up
2. Continuing arguing my opinion whenever it comes up
3. Get out before the real crazy

3

My mate is seeing a feminist and whenever I see her we just argue, she is a complete militants and it just irritates me.

I'm all for equality but I believe most movements like feminism have these days morphed into seeking an unfair advantage over equality. A unified equality movement of all races/genders/creeds and sexuality represented by all and representative of all would make more sense than 101 special interest groups trumpeting their own agenda.

Try explaining that to her though

 

[Gilly]

If you are a feminist that wants equality, are you really a feminist? Are you not an egalitarian?

Why specify that you are a feminist? Why say 'you want equality for one of the sexes'? By it's definition that doesn't seem equal to me.

 

[Dis86]

If you are a feminist that wants equality, are you really a feminist? Are you not an egalitarian?

Why specify that you are a feminist? Why say 'you want equality for one of the sexes'? By it's definition that doesn't seem equal to me.

Precisely!

 

[datalol-jack]

Too early in the day for feminism on GD, and if there's more to the story feel free to resurrect the Relationships thread. Don't really have the time to do you an essay on feminism and various bromisms for you, but let me offer you some further options.

5a. Listen to your partner, and let her state her case. You'll then know what the points of difference clearly are. Both agree to refer to wonderful places of expertise like the ONS in advance, for example, to resolve matters of dispute that claim either a particular point of fact or conclusion from anecdotal evidence, which is offered as an independently verifiable empirical law when it clearly isn't upon some reflection (without an independent arbiter like this, it's just a row). Be bold: dig up your material and hers to read and compare side-by-side, check the sources and listen to experts with some bias or none (a meta study of sorts). Talk about your past and how it shaped your views openly. If your previous experiences haven't entirely wiped out your critical faculties, you should then be able to admit where you were right, wrong or undecided. Once matters of fact are eliminated, whatever remains is opinion you can reach a happy disagreement on. Social sciences are far from perfect: be cognisant that what applies in the US may not apply in the UK or even a region of it, as a for instance; be mindful of generalisations.

5b. Convert all that tension into sexual energy -- everyone's a winner.

6. Stay away from Lizard Queen conspiracies of the evil, conspiring matriarchy that's been the power behind the throne all these centuries. It's popular in certain self-help works, implicitly or explicitly, for a reason -- it works on and sells books to the target audience.

7. A few weeks pass and you still treat each other as chess rivals? Then it's perhaps time to amicably part, as one or both of you went with biology over engaging brain, and, hey, that's just how it is at times. With good sense, you both would've learnt something from the experience.

Or you can keep running up that hill with your red pill:

In summary: bad people exist; women can be just as irrational and as abusive as men in relationships, sure; nonetheless, a rotten life still does not justify a leap of faith and a priori dismissal of a point of view that's encapsulated in the words 'she dares to disagree with me -- time to go my own way!' The latter on the internet, in my biased and limited experience, is far too often wounded pride and a touch of cowardice talking.

 

[TheBDog]

If you are a feminist that wants equality, are you really a feminist? Are you not an egalitarian?

Why specify that you are a feminist? Why say 'you want equality for one of the sexes'? By it's definition that doesn't seem equal to me.

Hey, I say I'm a feminist to get ignorant people riled up.

If they don't understand what feminism is really about at it's core(however poorly named) they ain't gonna know what an egalitarian is mate

 

[Terminal_Boy]

3.

Right now.

 

[VincentHanna]

But they are, women have more degrees, better exam results, and women under 30 earn more than men. Obviously you'd expect that trend to continue some what, in which case the tables will be reversed and it'll be men who are earning less

Well then parents should encourage their sons to work just as hard whilst in education.

There's no genetic reason that girls should do better academically than boys, so it must be a societal issue.

 

[twist3d0n3]

If you are a feminist that wants equality, are you really a feminist? Are you not an egalitarian?

Why specify that you are a feminist? Why say 'you want equality for one of the sexes'? By it's definition that doesn't seem equal to me.

identity politics is stupid anyway.

 

[twist3d0n3]

Well then parents should encourage their sons to work just as hard whilst in education.

There's no genetic reason that girls should do better academically than boys, so it must be a societal issue.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...se-they-do-better-at-coursework-31465425.html

 

[Gilly]

Hey, I say I'm a feminist to get ignorant people riled up.

If you're only saying it to get a reaction that's called trolling, and isn't really a desirable trait...

If they don't understand what feminism is really about at it's core(however poorly named) they ain't gonna know what an egalitarian is mate

I'm afraid that you're aiming this at the wrong person. Feminism at it's core has fundamentally changed from what it was. My opinion matches those that you seem to deem ignorant. I don't see that there's much place for feminism these days, only egalitarianism with equality for all - and the more that we push that stance and use that word the more it will become common parlance and the more people will become used to it.

 

[VincentHanna]

If you are a feminist that wants equality, are you really a feminist? Are you not an egalitarian?

Why specify that you are a feminist? Why say 'you want equality for one of the sexes'? By it's definition that doesn't seem equal to me.

Because if it ever comes up in conversations (i.e actual, not written) then a lot of people won't even have a clue what an egalitarian is.

 

[Roar87]

Also, I disagree that you have to all of the decisions to 'prove your strength'. But then, again, if you're in the right relationship then you can both tell each other when the other is making the wrong decision.

I'm sure there are people dissatisfied in relationships with their other half for many reasons. For the record, I'm a feminist but my OH is pretty indifferent. And me being a feminist doesn't have any bearing on our relationship.

Why are you putting to 'prove your strength'? I never said that. I'm just better at making decisions, I look at all the possible outcomes and do my research, women tend to make decisions more based on emotions, men tend to be better at making logical decisions. There's nothing wrong with this.

 

[Gilly]

Well then parents should encourage their sons to work just as hard whilst in education.

There's no genetic reason that girls should do better academically than boys, so it must be a societal issue.

Not necessarily, it could be down to something as simple as biology.

None of this is factual, so feel free to be as dismissive of it as you will, but in my own experience the males that I have known that have been successful were so only after school, whereas the females I have known have been successful throughout. They worked harder in school and I put this down to the fact that they were more simply more mature and 'grown up' about it. They weren't more intelligent (on average) and nor were they 'better' other than being more focused on school work.

Is it fair to have a system that lends itself more to female than male in this way? Should we be overhauling the education system to achieve some sort of parity?

Because if it ever comes up in conversations (i.e actual, not written) then a lot of people won't even have a clue what an egalitarian is.

One thing it is not is a synonym for feminism The more we use the term the more it will enter the vernacular of the masses

 

[RDM]

Why are you putting to 'prove your strength'? I never said that. I'm just better at making decisions, I look at all the possible outcomes and do my research, women tend to make decisions more based on emotions, men tend to be better at making logical decisions. There's nothing wrong with this.

Is there any evidence that this is actually true?

 

[VincentHanna]

Is there any evidence that this is actually true?

Yes, but there is more to it than that

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebecca-shambaugh/different-brains-differen_b_9480952.html

 

[TheBDog]

If you're only saying it to get a reaction that's called trolling, and isn't really a desirable trait...



I'm afraid that you're aiming this at the wrong person. Feminism at it's core has fundamentally changed from what it was. My opinion matches those that you seem to deem ignorant. I don't see that there's much place for feminism these days, only egalitarianism with equality for all - and the more that we push that stance and use that word the more it will become common parlance and the more people will become used to it.

Le sigh you are right of course. I like to use the name as I think we should try to stop feminism from being a naughty word used to describe it's extreme as commonplace. But perhaps that battle is already lost?

I spat that last post out because the debate is quite tiring. It was a dumb thing to say. I don't genuinely believe that all people who disagree with what I'm saying are ignorant it was, of course, a stab. I was merely, in my previous posts, trying (and somewhat failing) to convince people that egalitarianism is the way forward. And that perhaps feminism isn't what some people think that it is.

 

[PlacidCasual]

I have to say if the media/social networks/internet is any fair representation what passes for feminism these days is a very queer beast.

Social Justice Warrior is a pejorative term but it often neatly captures the misplaced sense of self that modern "activists" have.

The OP's post doesn't tell us enough in some ways but plenty in others. Either your missus has overbearing opinions that are luring you into arguments in which case I can't see it working because people are far more wedded to their ideas than their spouse or she's not in which case you may be being heavy handed and if you can't tone it down you're hurting everyone involved.

The World is become a funny old place and I have 2 daughters whom I would hope and expect will grow up with equal opportunities to flourish. But I find the grievance industries arguing for the use of ever larger sledge hammers to crack ever smaller problems oblivious whilst main stream gender biasing seems to be brainwashing generations of children into believing that for girls pink is the only colour and the way you look and dress is the most important thing about you. Now I appreciate this hasn't been conscious decision just everyone has bought into the self reinforcing position of 40 years of marketing/advertising. Now that is a problem feminists could do with solving.