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Housing crisis solutions

It can be quite sickening... (not mine)

£300,000 Detached, Freehold Nov 1998

Zoopla Estimate £1,071,000 2016
Madness. So that bricks and mortar has "earned" nearly £43,000/year for just sitting there. That's probably more than most people earn in that area, heck it's nearly double the national average salary!

There's a nice detached house round the corner from me that was similar but the steep rise was over 9-10 years I think. We worked out it's "earned" £90,000/year :(
 
It can be quite sickening... (not mine)

£300,000 Detached, Freehold Nov 1998

Zoopla Estimate £1,071,000 2016

Should see my grandparent's previous house - bought on an average civil service wage (while bringing up a family) - currently worth about 2.8 million for the whole building (currently split into multiple dwellings). Someone in that kind of job today couldn't even dream of buying something like it.
 
Haven't read the whole thread, but has this been discussed?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/new-land-tax-needed-to-burst-housing-bubble-b290x6nqs

The land value tax idea seems like a good one and worth exploring in particular.

Getting rid of stamp duty like suggested probably wouldn't speed up the market a great deal, people stick around in houses longer than they "should" because of emotive reasons not because of a tax.

My house earns more than I do, and has done so every year since we bought it: nice for me, but less so for my children, and horrible for the vast majority of their generation, who made the terrible mistake of being born to parents who don’t own property in southeastern England.

The housing crisis doesn’t just throttle labour mobility; it crimps lives. People start families later than they want, commute longer distances and live in crowded conditions.

This stokes a smouldering generational resentment. Change will be slow and painful. But failing to do so risks social upheaval. People yearn to own their own homes. Why shouldn’t they? It chimes with the natural human nesting instinct. Our homes are not just bricks and mortar, they are suffused with memories and associations. Home ownership spreads wealth, solidifies families, entrenches happiness and stokes civic feelings.

But as house prices have outstripped incomes, home ownership has become unaffordable. As a thought-provoking report for the think tank Civitas earlier this summer pointed out, between 2000 and 2014 average earnings rose by 51 per cent, but average house prices rose by 132 per cent.

The causes are complex. It is too easy to blame only a failure to build. Other factors matter too, such as the shrinking size of households. By most counts, scarcity (the housing stock relative to population) now is no worse than it was in the 1970s. Even the biggest housebuilding programme we can practically manage won’t dent prices as long as we continue to subsidise demand.

So first, we should stop throwing fuel on the flames. The government’s gimmicky help-to-buy schemes give a lucky few a foothold on the over-priced bottom rungs of the ladder. But these programmes make the problem worse for everyone else.

The real answer is to remove some of the economic rent (unearned income) from the lucky generation — mine and my parents’ — and transfer it to “Generation Rent”, whose plight was so clearly outlined in yesterday’s report by the Resolution Foundation.

It is impossible immediately to do anything about Britain’s absurdly low interest rates, which hurt those saving for mortgage deposits (or retirement or anything else), and make life unfairly easy for those who already have them. But we can use regulatory means to curb the supply of cheap credit to landlords. The buy-to-let boom has been a boon for them, but tightens supply further for Generation Rent.

Next, we need to bring as much supply as possible on the market. This means abolishing stamp duty. It is not just inefficiently costly to collect. It creates even more inefficiency by deterring buyers and sellers. In effect, it is a tax on moving, which slows labour mobility and keeps people trapped in parts of the country where they no longer want to live or work. It also slows down the downsizing (and upsizing) needed if the housing market is to work properly. Both recent major UK tax policy studies, the Mirrlees Review (by the Institute for Fiscal Studies) and one from the 2020 Tax Commission, recommended abolishing this tax entirely.

Then we should introduce a real land-value tax. This would be levied not on the value of the house (as with current council tax, and the old rates) but on the value of the land itself. This has many advantages. First, it hits the rich (who own land) much harder than the poor (who don’t). In particular, it raises the cost of living in a big house, but hardly affects people in small flats. It penalises those who sit on land waiting for it to rise in value — as was scandalously the case for decades with Battersea Power Station. If you pay tax on land whether you use it or not, you are more likely to bring it into productive use or sell it. Most taxes depress economic activity; land-value taxation actually stimulates it. It is cheap to collect and hard to dodge.

Land-value taxation also tackles the root of the housing problem: unearned income. The value of my house has little to do with my DIY skills. It has a great deal to do with the spectacular development of our once-grotty corner of London, notably the new Imperial Wharf Overground station — for which we paid nothing.

Tougher measures will be needed too. Until 1963 in this country we taxed “imputed rent” — the money that owner-occupiers would be paying if they rented their properties. This was called “Schedule A”. Abolishing it has slowly skewed the market in favour of those who own property, and against those who are trying to buy it. Not only is Generation Rent trying to scrape together a mortgage deposit out of taxed income. Its members are also paying the rent out of it too. Meanwhile those of us with our mortgage wholly or mostly paid off are living tax-free in an asset that is fast appreciating.

Taxing people to live in their own homes will produce howls of protest. But this will pale beside some even more drastic moves that may be necessary. One is ending capital gains tax exemption for residential property. I am against capital gains taxes in general. But if we have them, they should be levied widely, not narrowly. It doesn’t make sense to exempt a large chunk of our housing stock, when the bubble in its value has such pernicious social effects.

The most draconian measure of all— advocated by the Civitas report mentioned above — would be to introduce a right to buy for private tenants. This could be done in a market-friendly way (making sure that the landlord didn’t lose out), or in a confiscatory way, perhaps accompanied by 1970s-style security of tenure and rent freezes.

The effects of this on confidence would have course be catastrophic. The 1977 Rent Act crippled the private-rental market, in effect expropriating landlords without compensation. Even now tens of thousands of lucky tenants still enjoy security of tenure and tightly controlled non-market rents.

But the overreach of the past should serve as a warning now. If we do not deflate the housing bubble and make its beneficiaries pay more, we will sooner or later have a government elected by the majority of the population who are suffering from its effects. It will run housing policy based on what it regards as fairness; property rights will come second — or nowhere.
 
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Great article. Land value tax is top of the list for a lot of commentators.

I don't agree with taxing people to live in their own homes infact IMO it is a thinly disguised argument for what will largely be pricing honest hard working people out of their fairly bought home and enriching the already wealthy. For additional properties however I'd be in favour of more dramatic changes.

I don't grudge the older generation having a largely easier (IMO more proportionate rather than easy) time of affording an appropriate house that matched their otherwise financial status.
 
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I think the idea for a LVT is that combined with other measures we would stop the whole 'boom and bust' of the housing market, and instead get price rises in tune with the wider economy and wages. Therefore people would hardly notice the LVT going up, as it will be in line with their payrise and other bills inflating (slowly!).
 
I have had this conversation with others. It's no ones business how or where my money is, whether I have some of the deposit or none of it.
It was a thread to discuss some of the possibilities on how to achieve a more realistic wage to deposit/house price ratio for a whole generation and those in the future.
The problem is a reality that needs discussing, regardless.

Thanks

Sorry mate but if you provide the details...people will base their answers on this...

so from the calculations ive made....your opening line on the original post...

"I am one of the very unfortunate people in their thirties struggling to get onto the property ladder. Where I live, properties are a minimum of 180-250 with deposits necessary in excess of 20k."

Means that you should be "not" unfortunate, but very well placed to buy....im sorry i had to assume your finances but you have a realistic deposit/house ratio....usual mortage calcs are 4.5/5 x combined wages...tick....10% deposit...finances you have should easily be achievable...tick...

...so tbh i dont see your point mate...as i said, ive been in your position.

I also live in the South East so if it is tough....life is tough mate...nothing is handed on a plate or easily given to you...you earn it...otherwise were is the sense of achievement?
 
Lol what sense of achievement is there in owning a bundle of overpriced bricks?

Gee, well done guys, you've really pulled one over on the banks and estate agents there!
 
Lol what sense of achievement is there in owning a bundle of overpriced bricks?

Gee, well done guys, you've really pulled one over on the banks and estate agents there!

You sound fun. Got to have goals bro.

Whether that be a house, a car, a TV, that sound system you always wanted...
 
I've made about £60,000 on my property through no labour of my own. I didn't even save up a deposit; you could get mortgages worth over a hundred percent of the house in those days, my first mortgage was a 103% L-to-V.

I think it's pretty sickening when people who (like me) have wracked up tens, sometimes hundreds, of thousands of pounds in unearned income through the simple measure of owning a home, and benefit from the extent to which mortgages are cheaper than rents, are snide towards people who didn't get the luck and benefits we did.

Key word is "luck" but then its also about picking the right location.

If you get it right and you work hard for what youve achieved, then why not?

You work hard for a job promotion right? Then you should earn the relevant wages...unless you dont want that wage increase?

My point overall here is...OP is bleating on about how hard it is, but its clear as day, they havent put the hard graft in to save...otherwise they would have the deposit and be on the property ladder...once on, then it becomes a hell of a lot easier.
 
My point overall here is...OP is bleating on about how hard it is, but its clear as day, they havent put the hard graft in to save...otherwise they would have the deposit and be on the property ladder...once on, then it becomes a hell of a lot easier.
Try post #475.
 
My point overall here is...OP is bleating on about how hard it is, but its clear as day, they haven't put the hard graft in to save.

Where is the hard graft and saving on a 103% loan to value mortgage from pre 2008? I just came out of Uni back then when the crash hit so where was my and other chance to get on this gravy train?

Now I'm having work in a expensive part of the UK where the jobs are working my socks of where even a 1 bed flat is not a option by myself. There is no 100%+ LTV mortgage anymore, the price's are going up 10% each year along with rents, and you still need AT LEAST a 10% loan and you have the nerve to post something like that.

You probably change your tune when people like teachers/nurses/people who collect you bins can no longer live anywhere near you and those services suffer as a a result as they can no longer requite people.

Everyone has a right to have affordable stable roof over there heads.
 

I don't think anyone is denying that house prices are ludicrous. As 'Post 475' points out.

However they are what they are, and if you want to buy one, which is a personal choice, then sacrifices have to be made.

If you are earning £50k and can't afford a house then it's probably not entirely the housing markets fault. People do it on a lot less.
 
Where is the hard graft and saving on a 103% loan to value mortgage from pre 2008? I just came out of Uni back then when the crash hit so where was my and other chance to get on this gravy train?

Now I'm having work in a expensive part of the UK where the jobs are working my socks of where even a 1 bed flat is not a option by myself. There is no 100%+ LTV mortgage anymore, the price's are going up 10% each year along with rents, and you still need AT LEAST a 10% loan and you have the nerve to post something like that.

You probably change your tune when people like teachers/nurses/people who collect you bins can no longer live anywhere near you and those services suffer as a a result as they can no longer requite people.

Everyone has a right to have affordable stable roof over there heads.

I don't know the ins and outs, but I work in London, use to live with my parents in an area where >£500k houses are norm and £1m houses aren't uncommon. I have had to move further out to afford my own place. Increased travel time and costs.

It's about finding a balance. It's do-able, don't think otherwise. But challenging at times.
 
I don't think anyone is denying that house prices are ludicrous. As 'Post 475' points out.

However they are what they are, and if you want to buy one, which is a personal choice, then sacrifices have to be made.

If you are earning £50k and can't afford a house then it's probably not entirely the housing markets fault. People do it on a lot less.

If you were talking luxury car or something I'd agree more but being able to afford something to call a roof over your head IMO is as much a right as a pint of milk, etc. as per scam's post and in some parts of the country this has gone beyond just downsizing your ambitions a bit (moving is a short sighted response that in the long run won't fix anything).
 
If you were talking luxury car or something I'd agree more but being able to afford something to call a roof over your head IMO is as much a right as a pint of milk, etc. as per scam's post and in some parts of the country this has gone beyond just downsizing your ambitions a bit (moving is a short sighted response that in the long run won't fix anything).

Then I just think we fundamentally disagree with one another. I don't think house ownership is a right. Having a place to live, yes. But ownership? No.

Maybe I am too right wing for my own good ha!

But I have just bought my own house so I am probably bias as well.
 

Im not disputing post 475...im stating that the whole perceived situation of the original poster is not true...ive shown it should be simple to join the property ladder with a bit of graft...lets be honest, things wont change anytime soon...so instead of going on about it, concentrate your efforts on getting on the ladder not moaning about it!
 
Where is the hard graft and saving on a 103% loan to value mortgage from pre 2008? I just came out of Uni back then when the crash hit so where was my and other chance to get on this gravy train?

Now I'm having work in a expensive part of the UK where the jobs are working my socks of where even a 1 bed flat is not a option by myself. There is no 100%+ LTV mortgage anymore, the price's are going up 10% each year along with rents, and you still need AT LEAST a 10% loan and you have the nerve to post something like that.

You probably change your tune when people like teachers/nurses/people who collect you bins can no longer live anywhere near you and those services suffer as a a result as they can no longer requite people.

Everyone has a right to have affordable stable roof over there heads.

Im talking about the current situation my friend, not the past....i understand teh gravy train yes...i never benefitted from such gravy train...my situation absolutely mirrors the OP situation but i still managed to get onto the ladder in the SE....and from what...sacrifice and graft...sorry i see too many people making excuses these days.

Have you heard of commuter towns? Life also flows in circles, you will get your chance again to make it on easier than ever...dont you worry.
In this particular example the OP has the ability to save surely, 10% isnt much of an ask these days, its standard. £20k between two people...over a year etc.

Teachers collecting bins? No they will be teachers teaching mate. As i said i commute 20miles to work, i also live 20miles away in an area i didnt grow up in...am i bleating...no sorry im not, i saw the wood for the trees and sucked it up fella...its what you have to do in some cases.

Yes and everyone has access to a stable and affordable roof....as ive stated from a financial aspect its well within the financial realms of the OP to succeed. It just seems the angle of the post is.....well...il say no more
 
I don't know the ins and outs, but I work in London, use to live with my parents in an area where >£500k houses are norm and £1m houses aren't uncommon. I have had to move further out to afford my own place. Increased travel time and costs.

It's about finding a balance. It's do-able, don't think otherwise. But challenging at times.

and this

"I don't think anyone is denying that house prices are ludicrous. As 'Post 475' points out.

However they are what they are, and if you want to buy one, which is a personal choice, then sacrifices have to be made.

If you are earning £50k and can't afford a house then it's probably not entirely the housing markets fault. People do it on a lot less. "

Exactly my points...we cant go through life wrapping people in cotton wool...get on with it like this person did and as did i.

Nothing will change from one or a small group of people going on about it...life and circles happen...now where are those flares!!
 
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