Brexit thread - what happens next

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FishFluff said:
Democracy is fine. Referendums, particularly about emotive subjects, are dumb. There's a reason that up until the last decade we hardly had any. People vote based on 'gut feeling' instead of evidence. People can be easily swayed by empty promises. People can be manipulated based on lies that stir up hate against minority groups. There's a reason that Hitler was a fan of referendums.
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Interesting point of view but I can't help but feel that if the people had been asked if they wanted uncontrolled immigration and multi-culturalism, before it was imposed on them via the back door, then I feel there would be less hatred of minorities in this country now. Bottom line is that people who live in this country are the best people to decide what happens in it - not a narrow subset of elites.

I wish we would have more referenda - like Switzerland, hardly a Nazi dictatorship - elected representatives made sense when people travelled by horse and carriage and the only means of communications was by mail. In the modern era of 24 hour television, internet and mobile computing people have never been better informed to vote on pressing matters. What the MSM laughably calls the "post-truth era", is in fact so-called experts being subjected to much more scrutiny before, people can see that a particular expert has been wrong in the past and are much more cynical about what they are saying now. People aren't as naive as they were in the past. We need to get away from this industrial-academic complex that's arisen, producing studies that produce the recommendations desire by whoever is paying for the study, and back to the rigourous application of the scientific method.
 
I would suggest it is less to do with experts being wrong than politicians and other public figures over promising or misusing expert opinion to justify policy or actions that has devalued the belief in experts.
There is also an element of accountability, experts are rarely accountable for the opinions or judgements and the people recognise they are left responsible for the outcomes in the recent failures of experts, the 2008 crash, the Iraq war etc.
Expert opinion has been devalued and people are responding accordingly.
 
Greebo said:
Oh so that fact since Brexit the Uk largest house builderd has not built one house in the North means nothing?

That fact we laid off 4 out of 30 people last week with potentially more to come soon due to lack of work?

Construction in the UK has particularly stopped in some areas. This might just be a "blip" but for now there is no work and no sign it will start soon.

I can see lots of small building firms ceasing trading in the coming months.
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I'm afraid you can't tell the Brexiteers - deep down they know they have really ** fully star out swearies ** up but outwardly the just keep shouting la la la la la la I'm not listening. I reckon before long the Brits will become the most hated race on planet earth. Forget your holidays abroad if you know what's good for you. :eek:

scorza said:
I wish we would have more referenda - like Switzerland, hardly a Nazi dictatorship -
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eh! I take it history is not your strong suit then? :eek:
 
Faustus said:
I'm afraid you can't tell the Brexiteers - deep down they know they have really ** fully star out swearies ** up but outwardly the just keep shouting la la la la la la I'm not listening. I reckon before long the Brits will become the most hated race on planet earth. Forget your holidays abroad if you know what's good for you. :eek:
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Why would anyone want to listen to such rhetoric: most hated race on earth? Give me a break.

Look, I accept there's an economic impact from Brexit. I also believe that we're going to see the downside of the decision before we see the benefits. If things are abysmal in five to ten years, I'll perhaps review my choice, but until then I couldn't give a hoop.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
Why would anyone want to listen to such rhetoric: most hated race on earth? Give me a break.

Look, I accept there's an economic impact from Brexit. I also believe that we're going to see the downside of the decision before we see the benefits. If things are abysmal in five to ten years, I'll perhaps review my choice, but until then I couldn't give a hoop.
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It's not just Britain's economy this is affecting is it and if you look at the European press and the Asian press to name but two areas of the globe who do you think is getting the blame? Stop being so parochial and start seeing a much bigger picture.

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Faustus said:
It's not just Britain's economy this is affecting is it and if you look at the European press and the Asian press to name but two areas of the globe who do you think is getting the blame? Stop being so parochial and start seeing a much bigger picture.

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Firstly, I am not English.

Secondly, there is a global economic impact from many unilateral decision. The Feds decision to raise rates will be punishing for developing economies. The Saudis refusal to cut oil production hurt Russia and so on. I would argue those decisions are at least as big as Brexit in terms of actual economic impact.

Do you seriously think the Asian economies are going to hate us because of a decision on our sovereignty that will have only a small direct impact on them? Due you think many Europeans who also want to leave the EU will hate us?

Get real.
 
scorza said:
I wish we would have more referenda
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Problem is who decides on them?

What do you actually ask people to vote on?

E.g The budget?
It would become so short termist and popularist

You could agrue (I would) that some of Greeces recent issues have been by in effect making their whole election a referendum on popularist policies and thats part of what hss made it so difficult for them to move on.

What we really need is some sort of education and understanding testing in order to actually have say. Nothing too onerous but proof you have a grounding in things like international affairs, basic economics etc

Unfortunately politics has become more a popularity contest rather than a policy presentation
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Problem is who decides on them?

What do you actually ask people to vote on?
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I believe that in Switzerland any registered voter can start a petition for a referendum on any law they don't like - if they get 50,000 signatures in 100 days then a referendum is held. A similar proportion of the population in the UK would be ~400,000 signatures.
 
I too would like a more swiss model especially after talking to people i've met living there.

The problem is it wouldn't work in the UK yet. The people need to buy into it, and be brought up with it.

Perhaps we could start with council decisions and work upwards from there.

It would be better if electronic voting was allowed as that would make it pretty easy for those at work or with otherwise busy lives.
 
englishpremier said:
I too would like a more swiss model especially after talking to people i've met living there.

The problem is it wouldn't work in the UK yet. The people need to buy into it, and be brought up with it.

Perhaps we could start with council decisions and work upwards from there.

It would be better if electronic voting was allowed as that would make it pretty easy for those at work or with otherwise busy lives.
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Realistically, the Swiss system of direct democracy would never work in the UK, and anyone who believes otherwise is fooling themselves. We have gone too far in the current system (for the worse, imo) to change now.

The ignorance and/or sens of entitlement of the unwashed masses of the UK voting population is frightening, and this has long been encouraged by our softly softly approach to social policy, the justice system, and a deluge of politically correct pandering. We would have no idea what to do with a system that required us to act like something at least approaching rational and independent human beings.
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Problem is who decides on them?

What do you actually ask people to vote on?

E.g The budget?
It would become so short termist and popularist
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Actually you could use referendums for long term decisions that remove the 4 year short term goals.

By putting things to a vote you could have the country opt to remove them from govenrment control for say 10 plus years.

Commission a few studies about the best way to improve the nhs/bring it up to scratch with budgets.

Lay out each proposal for a referendum and say.

"The boted for plan and budget will be enacted and eill not be subject to interference from government policy for the X number of years outlined in the plans requirements"
 
Can someone tell me why I appear to have received an infraction? I am totally totally puzzled. There appears to be yellow swearies yet I haven't uttered any swearies and then something appears to have been removed though I don't know what it is. If I don't know what it is how can I stop from doing it again as there is nothing in the private section either? This is just plain bonkers and somewhat unfair.

Ah! EVH - don't worry, I remember now. I'm being punished for making a comment regarding foreign travel now we have decided to leave the EU (which wasn't meant to be malicious or aimed at anyone in particular, it's a firmly held belief). Nice to see democracy in action.
 
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Gigabit said:
Do people still think it was a good idea to leave?
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of course it was :) you just sit here for the next 10-15 years getting lower pay, paying more for things and just over-all making your life less fun and you'll see! it'll be great after that, trust me on this ;)

^^ typical leave voter.
 
grudas said:
of course it was :) you just sit here for the next 10-15 years getting lower pay, paying more for things and just over-all making your life less fun and you'll see! it'll be great after that, trust me on this ;)

^^ typical leave voter.
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The morbid irony's that for some this will mean retirement under shoddier and shoddier conditions and for the older vocal lot -- death.:eek:;) Pointless nihilism at its finest. You can claim anything on your way out, I suppose.
 
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