Debt and Society Today

Soldato
Joined
20 Mar 2007
Posts
5,413
I was reading the article in the newspapers today that states one in three families is unable to pay their rent or mortgage for more than a month if they lose their job, mainly because most people do not have any savings.

This got me thinking - are we all living beyond our means and racking up debt we are going to be paying back for the rest of our lives? Is it a lifestyle choice or are we being irresponsible?

You may have seen me write before that the wife's friend gives debt advice for a charity. She often says that whilst there are lots of genuine people, there are also lots who think the world owes them a living. They will get some families coming in asking for debt counselling who have an expensive phone contract and even Sky TV but be in arrears on their council tax. When they are advised that the debt to the council is a priority they often get quite aggressive when it's suggested they get a cheaper phone contract and perhaps Freeview. On top of that they also send their kids to breakfast clubs so the schools will give them breakfast. Now to me that is just being feckless.

I know I come from an older generation but seriously my parents had less than nothing. My father regularly had work one week then nothing perhaps for another two weeks. That's how it was in 1950's Northern England. No fitted carpets etc. and an outside loo. However, they always made sure they had a six month buffer i.e. if the worst came to the worst they had enough savings to tide them over for six months. The other thing in those days was you only bought what you could afford - cash. If you didn't have the cash you couldn't afford it - simple as that. That lesson has stayed with me for the rest of my life too. Apart from the mortgage (which was only small) we have always paid cash and always had a bit put away.

People may sneer at this practice these days but I know which I'd rather have.
 
From my experience the 3 main trends are "consumerism", those who feel entitled and those who are being hit by escalating rent prices (and possibly other prices like food) and in some cases an uncontrolled mixture of all 3.

Around here lower end wages have pretty much stalled for the last 8 years or so while mid level has dropped around 15-20% while living costs have continued to rise slowly and house/rent prices gone ballistic and a lot of people are genuinely struggling.

I'm always surprised how many people at work confess to have pretty much zero savings and would be in serious trouble even if their salary was paid late never mind losing their job - the reasons are more than just down to one thing though.
 
Debt slavery

Keep buying more stuff you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't like

This is what it boils down to.

Teenagers given too much of other people money to splurge doesn't help either. Kids whining because they haven't got the most up to date phone never mind it was the newest on the market 3months ago! :eek:
 
Having electronic money is now a problem as you do't really register that you're spending amounts. If you had a fist full of £10ers and went to buy something, handing that over would make you think. With paypal and the bank transfers now you don't really connect with what you're spending. Making the money/brain connection less is what shops and big business want you to do. Spend what you can't actually afford but you do anyway.
 
Up until the age of 34 I racked up about £12k of credit card/loan debt. For the last 2 years I've only been spending money on essentials so that I could pay it all off. I'm on track to be done by November. If it wasn't rent/utilities/food/travelling to work then I simply didn't spend money on it. Has it been the most depressing and boring 2 years of my life? Yes. Have I learnt a very valuable and important lesson? Yes.

I'm now only going to get credit if it's fixed payments and 0% interest. Everything else I'll be saving up for. Anyone can pay off their debts if they want to, it just takes a long time and is pretty hard if, like me, you enjoy nice things and spending cash.
 
The debt is going to saturate at some point and the banks will have made a pitiful mistake.

And we cant save them next time either.
 
Having electronic money is now a problem as you do't really register that you're spending amounts. If you had a fist full of £10ers and went to buy something, handing that over would make you think. With paypal and the bank transfers now you don't really connect with what you're spending. Making the money/brain connection less is what shops and big business want you to do. Spend what you can't actually afford but you do anyway.

That's certainly part of the problem, but if you're on top of your finances then you should know how much you're spending. I think a bigger problem is that kids aren't taught financial management in schools. If their only source of financial education is parents who live a debt-ridden lifestyle themselves then they'll never learn.
 
This is a massively divisive issue and is at the heart of almost every argument involving money and quality of life. People who complain about not having enough to feed themselves whilst smoking, drinking and having sky. People living paycheque to paycheque who complain when an unexpected expense comes up. All the while spending any spare money they might have like its going out of fashion.

If you suggest this you are usually called a tory **** who doesn't have any sympathy for the working class. If you took a selection of 1000 people of varying wages you would find people at both ends of the wage scale who have no money and save nothing and others that are fine regardless of salary.

Ultimately its easier to completely ignore personal responsibility and just kick up a fuss when it comes back to bite you on the arse. Thats not to say that there are not people in bad situations who couldn't do anything about it but those people are in the tiny minority.
 
Household debt has greatly increased in the latter part of the 20th century because the standard of living has increased, the worker productivity has also increased but real wages have stagnated.

Productivity essentially is the result of a people's work - products.

It's not consumerism or people living beyond their means, it's just that all the extra 'products' that resulted from increased productivity over the years are owned by a few people. They let the rest of the people play with these 'products' and charge them interest. Hence the debt.
 
This is a massively divisive issue and is at the heart of almost every argument involving money and quality of life. People who complain about not having enough to feed themselves whilst smoking, drinking and having sky. People living paycheque to paycheque who complain when an unexpected expense comes up. All the while spending any spare money they might have like its going out of fashion.

If you suggest this you are usually called a tory **** who doesn't have any sympathy for the working class. If you took a selection of 1000 people of varying wages you would find people at both ends of the wage scale who have no money and save nothing and others that are fine regardless of salary.

Ultimately its easier to completely ignore personal responsibility and just kick up a fuss when it comes back to bite you on the arse. Thats not to say that there are not people in bad situations who couldn't do anything about it but those people are in the tiny minority.

Your liberal society which doesn't tie up with the true definition.

Gotta keep up with you mates or the neighbours...

Living life for Facebook. Is that 4 holidays abroad so far?
 
I agree OP. I've only ever been in £13k office monkey jobs but I always have around £2500 saved so that I can last for 3 months if I was made redundant. The savings also go on e.g. boiler repairs, which I then replenish back up to around £2500 afterwards.

I have 1 credit card for cash flow which is paid off every month by direct debit. It rarely goes above £100.

No other debts except for the student loan which I probably will never reach the pay-back threshold from my earnings. Think you have to earn £15k before you start paying that back?

Treats are as and when, whenever affordable. E.g. I still go clubbing a few times a year.

One area where I do splash out though is an expensive mobile contract so that I can have a high-end handset. That's on the mentality that I don't have a landline, so I'm paying £37/month all-in for a single phone bill with a free handset every 2 years.
 
Me and my partners outgoings are such that we can pay the bills if one of us lost our job, I don't have any debt apart from our Mortgage and only recently got my first creditcard at 29 so I could get a cheaper exchange rate abroad. I've always just saved up to buy things and generally have a bit of money set aside for unexpected outgoings
 
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