Debt and Society Today

Ace Modder · 9 Aug 2016 at 18:37

Steve2000 said:
This is pretty much the size of it.

I've never been in debt, aside from the mortgage. I've never had a particularly lavish lifestyle, but then again I'm a man of simple needs. I don't need flash holidays, I don't need flash cars, latest phones etc. My mobile phone bill is currently £5.50 a month and I think even that's too much.

Our next door neighbours are a couple who are both about 30. They both have pretty run of the mill basic office jobs. They have two young kids, always kitted out in the latest gear (them and the kids), latest phones, holidays abroad all the time etc. Couple of months ago they got rid of a 3 year old top of the range Alfa Romeo and replaced it wish a 1 year old Merc CLA to the tune of about £21000, both this one and the Alfa they had are Sport models, white with black 20" wheels. Absolutely buckled with all that debt just for Facebook posing rights. Not that I begrudge anyone a nice car if they've worked for it but this is just blatant posing at massive expense.

Do you know for sure they are debted? Maybe a grandparent died and left them £100k - you never know?

aardvark · 9 Aug 2016 at 18:43

Maccapacca said:
Debt slavery

Keep buying more stuff you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't like

this.
when interest rates go up (and they will eventually, might be a while but its guaranteed at some point), then they are totally screwed.

Tefal · 9 Aug 2016 at 18:45

in this thread:

"people circle jerking about how little they need to be happy and looking down on a fictitious group of materialists"

Amp34 · 9 Aug 2016 at 18:46

V F said:
Your liberal society which doesn't tie up with the true definition.

Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Whereas classical liberalism emphasises the role of liberty, social liberalism stresses the importance of equality.[4] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programmes such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, gender equality and international cooperation.

Doesn't say anywhere that you don't have responsibility for your actions. If you screw up then that's your problem!

Part of the issue though is the government policy. Things like interest rates and growth are designed to get people to spend as much as possible. In recessions, when people are most vulnerable to job losses and spiralling debt, what do governments do? Pump money into the banks to try and lend people more money, reduce interest rates so borrowing is more appealing and saving is seen as pointless.

Yeah, it's great, it helps bring a country out of recession, and increases the debt burden on so many people who don't have self discipline at the same time.

Bassmansam · 9 Aug 2016 at 18:48

Maccapacca said:
Depends how much you have had to gamble to win 1100. If you've gambled thousands over the years to win 1100 that's not sensible.

Indeed, forunately i have not wasted thousands though.

Clipsey · 9 Aug 2016 at 18:50

VincentHanna said:
How do we compare to the states?

Every time I come back to England, I feel people are a lot more flashy and more worried about their look, what car they drive and what they're doing as opposed to how successful they really are. It certainly has amped up the past 15 yrs or so? Every one has to have new cars, new outfits, the latest holiday hot spot etc, and I know that many people don't make great money, so can assume a lot of it is in debt

Over here, it's not as great either though, I think some 90% of Americans don't have more than $1k in their savings account, which is seriously grim.
However, people certainly are not as flashy....so not sure what their spending the money on

dowie · 9 Aug 2016 at 18:55

Clipsey said:
Every time I come back to England, I feel people are a lot more flashy and more worried about their look, what car they drive and what they're doing as opposed to how successful they really are. It certainly has amped up the past 15 yrs or so? Every one has to have new cars, new outfits, the latest holiday hot spot etc, and I know that many people don't make great money, so can assume a lot of it is in debt

Over here, it's not as great either though, I think some 90% of Americans don't have more than $1k in their savings account, which is seriously grim.
However, people certainly are not as flashy....so not sure what their spending the money on

Not true really, the US is even worse than the UK for this - levels of credit card debt etc.. are higher than the UK

As for 'more flashy and more worried about their look' try visiting Miami!

Steve2000 · 9 Aug 2016 at 19:09

Ace Modder said:
Do you know for sure they are debted? Maybe a grandparent died and left them £100k - you never know?

I actually made a tongue in cheek comment when he got it, I said "you must have just won the pools eh upgrading cars like this all the time". He said "Nah well we were passing the Merc garage and we just fancied it, the payments on it aren't that much more than the Alfa really".

Sagalout · 9 Aug 2016 at 19:10

Non of this is new. The UK has had a credit culture since the 1950's

Chuk_Chuk · 9 Aug 2016 at 19:14

Clipsey said:
Over here, it's not as great either though, I think some 90% of Americans don't have more than $1k in their savings account, which is seriously grim.
However, people certainly are not as flashy....so not sure what their spending the money on

Healthcare

V F · 9 Aug 2016 at 19:17

Amp34 said:
Doesn't say anywhere that you don't have responsibility for your actions. If you screw up then that's your problem!

Part of the issue though is the government policy. Things like interest rates and growth are designed to get people to spend as much as possible. In recessions, when people are most vulnerable to job losses and spiralling debt, what do governments do? Pump money into the banks to try and lend people more money, reduce interest rates so borrowing is more appealing and saving is seen as pointless.

Yeah, it's great, it helps bring a country out of recession, and increases the debt burden on so many people who don't have self discipline at the same time.

How many can honestly sleep well without the worry?

Sagalout said:
Non of this is new. The UK has had a credit culture since the 1950's

No but it is worse and there was job security back then when you left school from all the stories I was told.

Blair era, pulse and a passport you got loans.

Flack88 · 9 Aug 2016 at 19:18

The movie Fight Club sums a lot of this up perfectly.
I have zero personal debt nor do I ever plan on being in debt except for mortgage. I always try and live within my means, If I spend any of my saved up money on a car / bike / new pc I always replace that money and keep on adding. Most phone's (iPhone especially) etc are pretty much just a fashion accessory for most people to try and show off how in debt they are. Cars are something I have noticed a lot more nowadays as people seem to just pay finance / lease on a bottom or middle spec car, these are the cars that end up on the 2nd hand market in a few years as nobody wants them.

Amp34 · 9 Aug 2016 at 19:21

V F said:
How many can honestly sleep well without the worry?

Not sure what you mean, but the first part of the last sentence was sarcastic.

Malevolence · 9 Aug 2016 at 19:34

I've never been in debt (I do owe a mate £25 from last Friday mind, but he'll be getting that back this Friday) and if I want something that I can't afford straight away then I put money aside until I can afford it.

Is there something wrong with me?

Puzzled · 9 Aug 2016 at 19:36

It will be worse if people stop spending money they don't have, economy will take a right dive then.

It's just how Western ecomonies work now, key is keeping people just below tilting point so they can live with the debt.

I'm usually pretty good at saving but its getting depressing seeing that the total figure hasn't really gone up for a while now. I'm not struggling or anything and don't really have any debt but I'm not moving forward, just stagnant.

Spook187 · 9 Aug 2016 at 19:36

Debt is a way of life for many many people, the cost of living being the biggest, lol at the people who say you should have savings blah blah, where from may i ask, there is nothing left out of someones wages to save it's not hard to understand, has it ever crossed your mind that some folk happen to live their life on poor paid jobs for whatever reason and have debt it's a way of life for millions of people.

V F · 9 Aug 2016 at 19:40

Amp34 said:
Not sure what you mean, but the first part of the last sentence was sarcastic.

Well, with so many living on credit or loading the next card and so on with so many of their life scenarios living paycheque to paycheque. Mortgage or more so most on rent. I don't think they have a fabulous sleep each night with all the worry between zero hour contracts or if they'll still have a job or two by the end of the month.

Compared to this forum this place is relatively wealthy without worry if they'll still have a roof when you hear from other people. Look how so many are struggling to purchase school uniforms or even new shoes for them.

I used to see people buying ice cream cones out of the chip shop on their credit cards. One time that wasn't normal. Look at even the mess in 2014? The amount fighting over £200 - £250 TV's... These would be the same people that will say their life is so stressful that they have to borrow more money for a holiday and come back with even more debt.

StriderX · 9 Aug 2016 at 20:08

Holidays aren't a necessity, i wish people would drop that cultural artifact, thankfully the world is collapsing in on itself and the holiday destinations are all murderous hell holes.

dowie · 9 Aug 2016 at 20:11

Spook187 said:
Debt is a way of life for many many people, the cost of living being the biggest, lol at the people who say you should have savings blah blah, where from may i ask, there is nothing left out of someones wages to save it's not hard to understand, has it ever crossed your mind that some folk happen to live their life on poor paid jobs for whatever reason and have debt it's a way of life for millions of people.

anyone who buys a TV from a company like bright house (or similar) could have had savings instead

anyone who smokes cigarettes could have had savings instead

anyone who buys scratch cards weekly, plays bingo etc..etc......

helpimcrap · 9 Aug 2016 at 20:28

FishFluff said:
Up until the age of 34 I racked up about £12k of credit card/loan debt. For the last 2 years I've only been spending money on essentials so that I could pay it all off. I'm on track to be done by November. If it wasn't rent/utilities/food/travelling to work then I simply didn't spend money on it. Has it been the most depressing and boring 2 years of my life? Yes. Have I learnt a very valuable and important lesson? Yes.

I'm now only going to get credit if it's fixed payments and 0% interest. Everything else I'll be saving up for. Anyone can pay off their debts if they want to, it just takes a long time and is pretty hard if, like me, you enjoy nice things and spending cash.

Get another credit card and do a balance transfer for 0%. I did that to pay off some solar panels. I'm still paying them off but £35 a month means I can save up the money to pay it off in chunks as and when.

Always keep 2 credit cards for emergency - use one in an emergency and then make sure the other one is the one with the 0% balance offer, Small fee but free money and makes paying debts off easier if you manage it properly.

My opinion on people getting into debt is that people lack the ideas of yesteryear when people refused to get into debt - for obvious reasons. That reasoning has been abused by the credit companies and essentially people take the easy way out rather than working for it or going without.