Debt and Society Today

If saving up all your life for stuff makes you happy... GREAT
IF going out getting loans buying what you want when you want makes you happy. GREAT

It really doesn't matter
 
Efour said:
If saving up all your life for stuff makes you happy... GREAT
IF going out getting loans buying what you want when you want makes you happy. GREAT

It really doesn't matter
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It does when the actions of the latter makes the actions of the former impossible to do to any real degree.
 
Meh. As long as people live within their means, what does it matter if they have a bit of debt. As long as it's managed.

The insinuation that having no savings makes you someone incapable of managing money is a little insulting however.
 
neil_g said:
Meh. As long as people live within their means, what does it matter if they have a bit of debt. As long as it's managed.

The insinuation that having no savings makes you someone incapable of managing money is a little insulting however.
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Well if you have no money to manage...
 
StriderX said:
Well if you have no money to manage...
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Huh? Taking some 0% finance doesnt mean you have no money. Sometimes it's just convenient. As long as you can afford the payments where exactly is the harm.

Or do you mean about the savings bit? You're not clear on your point.
 
Faustus said:
I was reading the article in the newspapers today that states one in three families is unable to pay their rent or mortgage for more than a month if they lose their job, mainly because most people do not have any savings.

This got me thinking - are we all living beyond our means and racking up debt we are going to be paying back for the rest of our lives? Is it a lifestyle choice or are we being irresponsible?

You may have seen me write before that the wife's friend gives debt advice for a charity. She often says that whilst there are lots of genuine people, there are also lots who think the world owes them a living. They will get some families coming in asking for debt counselling who have an expensive phone contract and even Sky TV but be in arrears on their council tax. When they are advised that the debt to the council is a priority they often get quite aggressive when it's suggested they get a cheaper phone contract and perhaps Freeview. On top of that they also send their kids to breakfast clubs so the schools will give them breakfast. Now to me that is just being feckless.

I know I come from an older generation but seriously my parents had less than nothing. My father regularly had work one week then nothing perhaps for another two weeks. That's how it was in 1950's Northern England. No fitted carpets etc. and an outside loo. However, they always made sure they had a six month buffer i.e. if the worst came to the worst they had enough savings to tide them over for six months. The other thing in those days was you only bought what you could afford - cash. If you didn't have the cash you couldn't afford it - simple as that. That lesson has stayed with me for the rest of my life too. Apart from the mortgage (which was only small) we have always paid cash and always had a bit put away.

People may sneer at this practice these days but I know which I'd rather have.
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People are idiots with money really.

Take a wander over to the GPU section. Questions such as 'wonder if it's worth going a 1000 bucks into debt to buy a GPU (he/she will be taking a loss on pretty much instantly)'. Which tells me his/her whole net worth belongs to the bank. There's no compromise there. People have literally empty their entire bank account or go into debt for something that's essentially overpriced trash a few months down the line. Which is obviously their right to do so, but it does raise a philosophical question whether they have a right to MY tax money when they do lose their income and need to be propped up for making no provision and wasting their money.

We don't teach people how to work effectively with money. They have literally no clue. It's instant gratification or nothing. They settle for nothing less.

I recently started working for a PMO where everyone earn well in excess of 100-150k a year. Yet most of the guys in there I speak to are always skint. The office have 2-3 coffee machines that makes every fancy coffee under the sun, for free. You don't even get coffee this fancy in coffee shops, yet everyone is sipping 10 dollar lattes 5 times a day from the coffee shop in the business park.

With the PMO shedding some staff this month, some people are frantically looking for work otherwise they can't make their mortgage/rent. Some of those guys have been earning 200k a year for 5 years now plus 20% bonuses. They have nothing. Account is empty (by their own admission). What sort of idiots are they? And this goes on worldwide.

I don't know the answer. But I do know that for all my parents' many many MANY faults, teaching us about money and savings wasn't one of them. I'd like to think that money matters should start at home but it would appear my generation (born in early 80s) which are now the parents, have no idea themselves. Spend spend spend, waste waste waste.

I have two very dear friends that's exactly the same. They both earn great money but by the end of the month they're on the floor financially. They just can't get their head around saving for a rainy day or the fact that you don't NEED to ***** all your money every month.

Be interesting to see where it will end.
 
The banks have to lend more and more money just to remain in existence.

As they become less fussy about who they lend to, those loans have a greater likely hood of default and the banks have to lend and charge more to counter this.

Wages are stagnant, the cost of living is increasing, the loan market is saturated.

Not surprising when you see a 3 bed semi for rent in an OK area for £900 pm .
 
I was not surprised to see the rent problems, bringing up a family is very expensive, housing is very expensive.
 
Maccapacca said:
Debt slavery

Keep buying more stuff you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't like
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If not for my parents relentlessly drilling money matters into our heads, that would've been my saving grace. I literally don't give a crap about impressing anybody so my money is safe :p

But true, you see it especially in the GPU section. People oh so proud buying a graphics card, clearing their entire net worth, so they can get an 'atta boy' from XYZ1992.

It boggles the mind.
 
Rroff said:
Those ones depress me - not that I'd go mad with that kind of money but I'd always make sure I had a fallback so atleast I could live comfortably even if somewhat sparsely if it all went wrong - was reading the other day about someone who'd won 13million and couple of years later literally had 0 money left - no debts but literally no money in the bank and little to show for it except a nice house.
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Hehe. In NZ a few weeks ago we had some sort of Powerball lottery thing. Can't recall the exact amount but it was the highest ever. Even I bought a ticket. First time ever in my life.

When asked what I would do if I won the money, I was stumped. In truth, nothing. There's a 100% chance that I would have more money by the end of the first year of winning the lotto. I don't need a car, house, holiday, PC, anything. If I want any of those things I'll just buy it today. Don't need to win the lotto to do so.

Still though, would've been nice to have won :p
 
regulus said:
If not for my parents relentlessly drilling money matters into our heads, that would've been my saving grace. I literally don't give a crap about impressing anybody so my money is safe :p

But true, you see it especially in the GPU section. People oh so proud buying a graphics card, clearing their entire net worth, so they can get an 'atta boy' from XYZ1992.

It boggles the mind.
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America, cannot remember if it was each iPhone release or Christmas but there are vast amounts of people taking payday loans for the latest iPhone.
 
Other than my mortgage, I've got 2 years left of a 5 year personal loan for my car, very affordable (and only have it because I needed a reliable car to get me to work).

I've got friends who will easily drop silly money on the latest tech, putting on credit cards saying "I'll worry about it later"... baffles the mind.
 
Steve2000 said:
This is pretty much the size of it.

I've never been in debt, aside from the mortgage. I've never had a particularly lavish lifestyle, but then again I'm a man of simple needs. I don't need flash holidays, I don't need flash cars, latest phones etc. My mobile phone bill is currently £5.50 a month and I think even that's too much.

Our next door neighbours are a couple who are both about 30. They both have pretty run of the mill basic office jobs. They have two young kids, always kitted out in the latest gear (them and the kids), latest phones, holidays abroad all the time etc. Couple of months ago they got rid of a 3 year old top of the range Alfa Romeo and replaced it wish a 1 year old Merc CLA to the tune of about £21000, both this one and the Alfa they had are Sport models, white with black 20" wheels. Absolutely buckled with all that debt just for Facebook posing rights. Not that I begrudge anyone a nice car if they've worked for it but this is just blatant posing at massive expense.
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What my dear old mum used to call all fur coat and no knickers. :eek:
 
You think people are bad. The government of this country have been swiping their credit cards like crazy for years. That's why we need 0.25% rates.

Reckless spenders will be rewarded because the one controlling the cost of it is the worst of them all.

Oh yeah, as tax payers we're on the hook for 40% of every help to buy loan that will be wiped out in a housing crash shortly.

If I had my time again I'd load up to the eyeballs with debt. What's there to lose? If it fails just go bankrupt.

I've seen a lot of debt forgiven by banks to reckless friends that can't pay it back.
 
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