Debt and Society Today

Todays society and media seem to make living in debt a viable method for living your life. Between credit cards, monthly payment schemes, payday loans etc etc.
People seem to be actively encouraged to live that way.

On the flip side it can be hard these days, the rental market is insane, and good luck getting on the property ladder unless you're earning 6 figures, in a couple or inherit the means to do so.
I think many people don't realise how difficult it is for the current generations to simply make ends meet.
I'm not on a bad salary, but on my own the mortgage I could get wouldn't be enough to buy me anywhere, without moving some distance away.
 
yes was a lot easier afew years back ,2001 we just needed 5% deposit on 42k modern semi ,ended up a lot cheaper than renting but instead of just blowing the spare cash (not much as i was easily on tax credits) we hammered the mortgage paying it in 9 years , sold the house for more than double now mortgage free .
still careful ie wont pay for parking ,examine every outgoing for a cheaper alternative and dont feel i need to travel to be on holiday
 
Read this and got me thinking about our position.

To be honest we have 0 savings currently, however in the last 5 years we have moved house twice and now in a house we are going to be happy in for the rest of our years.

Any money we have pretty much goes into the house decorating, furniture etc. However we are slowly getting there, and although we have a total of around £3000 on credit and a car we pay £270 a month for this is it other than the mortgage.

Current outgoings can be covered by the wifes wage and my wage is for the lifestyle. From next month we hope to start saving between £300 - £500 per month along with my quarterly commission going in there.

After being made redundant last year it does worry me about not having any savings, however I hope by Christmas we will have a bit of a cushion behind us, along with all the decorating and furnishings all being done ready to start 2017 in a great position.

I see us being very lucky, and since being made redundant I have really tried to change my spending habits as although I was lucky enough to get into another job straight away it made me feel very vulnerable!
 
h4rm0ny said:
an excellentpost.
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Agree. There is this concept in society that teaches some people to look down their nose at others. Don't know where it came from.

Some people don't deserve their hardship. Some do.

In places like London getting onto the property ladder must be a nightmare.

And I do agree with avenge here that the perceptions of this forum regarding class and a divide between age vs youth. The income inequality now is through the roof. Some families are just a month away from eviction.

How does everyone feel about Christmas? To elucidate: People splurging credit cards to pay for Christmas?
 
moon man said:
yes was a lot easier afew years back ,2001 we just needed 5% deposit on 42k modern semi ,ended up a lot cheaper than renting but instead of just blowing the spare cash (not much as i was easily on tax credits) we hammered the mortgage paying it in 9 years , sold the house for more than double now mortgage free .
still careful ie wont pay for parking ,examine every outgoing for a cheaper alternative and dont feel i need to travel to be on holiday
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Congratulations on being mortgage free, must be a great feeling!

My wife does all the budgeting, but when it comes to the outgoings I am the one who looks out for deals. As it stands I feel there is no way we can reduce our outgoings anymore to make a different. We don't have SKY, all insurances are the cheapest we could have got at the time etc. The only thing I splash on is the pro internet package, even so it would only really save £10 per month.

It is the same with food, I would say our weekly shopping bill for me, wife and 2.5year old little girl varies between £80 - £100. Around £10 - £15 of that is beer and wine which again could be cut down but makes little difference really.
 
I went off ill for quite some time last year, enough for my company sick pay to run out and my outgoings on rent alone were more than ESA could provide. With no savings, I used credit as my buffer. Went up to 4k in debt before I got back into work.
Its all under control now, and will be paid off comfortably before the end of my 0% terms.

In theory I could have saved that money to act as a buffer instead of going into debt, but the drop in quality of life would have been steep to say the least.
 
My family were not exactly wealthy but we were far from poor growing up. I would have put us as your typical middle-class Surrey family in terms of wealth. My father splurged while my mother did not. Christmas wise, there was always an unwritten rule of a price limit. This applied to everyone, children/adults/grandparents. In terms of todays money: Children would receive no more than £80/100 worth of stuff from parents and 5/10 from each other, with £20 between adults. It made Christmas far more bearable tbh, and was never left wanting for more stuff as a kid and relieved at the spending limits as an adult. My family did brand names when sensible and bog standard on almost everything that made no difference (which is quite a lot).
 
h4rm0ny said:
There's a lot of truth in this thread - we do have a major problem with debt and personal spending in this country. And there most certainly are people who have a major entitlement problem and no concept of delayed gratification.

But I think a lot of people in this thread forget just how bloody miserable it is to be poor. Yes, Sky is a luxury that isn't necessary to life. But paying £40 per month for something you or your kids will use all the time, works out a Hell of a lot cheaper per hour than going to the cinema or a meal out or even a trip to the seaside (unless you live next door to it in which case your property value means you're probably not desperately poor). As a means of entertainment, Sky TV is actually one of the best returns on investment you can get. And it's one that can keep three kids entertained. And yes, somebody is about to make a comment about how kids should go out to play, well they might want to consider some of the areas these people are forced to live in before they do.
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We've never been "poor" but jesus even to me £40 a month is rather a lot of money just to watch tv? Nearly £500 a year?? Simply not justifiable at all if you're on benefits.

Problem is it doesnt stop there. Then you can usually add another £30 a month or so for payments for the brand new widescreen tv, because what kind of animal would have an old crt in their home still.
 
soundb0y said:
We've never been "poor" but jesus even to me £40 a month is rather a lot of money just to watch tv? Nearly £500 a year?? Simply not justifiable at all if you're on benefits.
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Yes, if you are on benefits it is a lot of money but h4rmony raises good points.

It seems like a lot now but tbh that is because there is an insane amount of free entertainment available now at a click of your finger with the internet. If you think back 20 years ago, a sky package would be a worthwhile spend if the dad watches it after work, the kids watch it on rainy days or after school or because they are in the countryside and their nearest free mate is quite the trek away, it seems like quite a bargain. We had a sky movie package and though we were far from poor, i loved sitting down in the evenings and weekends with my brother and father to watch whatever sky movie classic masterpiece was on. The experience was as good as going to the cinema and watching whatever passed for a children film back then.

Though something like sky is a luxury, in terms of value for money, you can compare it to things like a single ticket at Thorpe park.
 
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GinG said:
Around £10 - £15 of that is beer and wine which again could be cut down but makes little difference really.
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It's potentially £780 a year, hardly little difference unless you're swimming in cash.

I think this is part of the cause of a lot of these issues. People are too inclined to think of their expenses in terms of monthly or weekly payments and it doesn't sound like a lot when viewed in isolation. £30 a month for a new phone, £200 a month for a new car. But it all adds up.
 
I have £16k of debt, £6k of it is interest free for the next 3 years and £10k over the 3 years has cost me £560 I think it was. I did have about another £10k of debt a few months ago but I stopped spending my money on junk and cleared it. I currently have £5,000 saved up and just going to keep saving what I can (I recon £1,000 a month) I could clear my debts but I don't see the point when it's pretty much not costing me anything. I do live at home with my mum and brother and the mortgage is completely paid off. I am debating moving out but the thought of paying off someone else's mortgage is a tough thought.
 
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cHk4 said:
I have £16k of debt, £6k of it is interest free for the next 3 years and £10k over the 3 years has cost me £560 I think it was. I did have about another £10k of debt a few months ago but I stopped spending my money on junk and cleared it. I currently have £5,000 saved up and just going to keep saving what I can (I recon £1,000 a month) I could clear my debts but I don't see the point when it's pretty much not costing me anything. I do live at home with my mum and brother and the mortgage is completely paid off. I am debating moving out but the thought of paying off someone else's mortgage is a tough thought.
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Unless you're getting more in interest on your savings than your debt is costing you surely its best to get it paid off asap?
 
We need inflation, and we need wage growth. I saw this the other day:

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Which really puts the UK's problems in stark relief. This is the worst period of wage growth ever and we've been cursed with low inflation too.
 
bainbridge said:
Savings? What are they? The interest rate on my empty savings account is laughable.

If I lost my job I'd be screwed within a month, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I have a good credit rating and don't spend beyond my means but when I get it I spend it!

Maybe when I'm old I'll look back and think "I wish I hadn't had that holiday in the canaries" or "I wish I hadn't splashed out on that new bike and cycled across Europe". Probably not :)

I'm not one for fancy clothes and cars but money buys me experiences so I'm spending the lot :)
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So what you're saying is your life's foundations are all built on sand?
 
I only earn around 12k a year but I feel I have more than enough in life and have savings, I have a good setup, good appliances, a small apartment that I like, indulge in my hobbies frequently, hiking, kayaking, biking, photography etc, what more do I want in life?, people work so hard to earn so much but how happy are they? and how much time do they get to see family and friends? indulge in their interests?

My Boss for example is a millionaire and I hand on heart wouldn't trade places with him, he is obsessed with his business to the extent that he has absolutely no life at all, I said to him once, "There is a beautiful beach right behind your business, why don't you just for one evening take your wife down there and walk across it while the sun is setting", you know what he said to me? "In the 30 years I've been here I have not once set foot on a beach, I just don't have the time!" unbelievable!

I think there a considerable amount of people out there that if they were a little more savvy with their money, could work a lot less, but maintain a very good lifestyle and have a much better work-life balance.
 
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Terminal_Boy said:
Live within your means. It's not rocket science nor neurosurgery.
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easier said than done when the your means are now a lot less than what it costs to live. This country has a fundamental problem in that the cost of living far outstrips how much the average worker gets paid. It's easy to smash out broad statements like live within your means when you are sitting pretty, but the reality for many out there is that their means are simply not enough and the escalating costs of living strip any paltry raises they may see if they are lucky enough in this climate to get a decent rise at all.
 
h4rm0ny said:
There's a lot of truth in this thread - we do have a major problem with debt and personal spending in this country. And there most certainly are people who have a major entitlement problem and no concept of delayed gratification.

But I think a lot of people in this thread forget just how bloody miserable it is to be poor. Yes, Sky is a luxury that isn't necessary to life. But paying £40 per month for something you or your kids will use all the time, works out a Hell of a lot cheaper per hour than going to the cinema or a meal out or even a trip to the seaside (unless you live next door to it in which case your property value means you're probably not desperately poor). As a means of entertainment, Sky TV is actually one of the best returns on investment you can get. And it's one that can keep three kids entertained. And yes, somebody is about to make a comment about how kids should go out to play, well they might want to consider some of the areas these people are forced to live in before they do.

People make comments about how poor people are spending money on ready-made meals when they could buy beans and rice and whatever and cook from scratch. Yeah, that takes time and surprisingly doesn't actually save you that much. Can even cost you more.

People condemn the poor for not saving, but realistically, a lot of people just don't see a way out. Getting on the housing ladder is horrifically difficult these days. Save up £20,000 when you're on low income? Good luck with that. Maybe over ten years you can do it, but you and your kids are miserable now.

And there's the perennial "shouldn't have kids if you can't afford them". To which any poor person could rightfully reply that having children is a basic drive of the species. THE basic drive of the species, in fact. Saying that only the middle and upper classes are allowed to breed... Yeah, that's a bit beyond elitist, imo.

Again, I'm not saying we don't have big problems with abuse of credit in this country. But when people see unearned and privileged people flaunting their wealth all about them (our media is almost nothing but...), when we see our government and others in power doing it all the time themselves, when you're miserable right now and you're trying to stop your kids disappearing out every night to who knows where, then taking the opportunity for some immediate relief is an understandable course of action.

And yes, it can and will cause major economic problems for this country, but every one of those people who is oversubscribed with debt would respond that banks trading bad debts or demanding bailouts did more harm than them - and they'd be right. So they'd ask why they shouldn't get a little happiness in return for doing so much less.

I'm not promoting wanton borrowing here, I'm promoting a little sympathy and understanding on the part of those who no longer remember what not having much money is like.
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The above - oh dear! where do I start. If you go back to my original post you will see I say my parents had less than nothing and that was true. Both my parents had to find work to make ends meet and work long hours. No such thing as ready meals in those days (which BTW are full of salt and sugar). Mum had to come home and start tea (very tired) and my sister and I had to help her in a tiny kitchen with an old gas stove.

Sky TV is a good investment you say! :eek: I was nearly nine years old before we got a 'telly'. Before that it was the 'wireless'. Freeview is a good investment, the clue is in the title. Did I think we were poor - no! Did I envy my mates - no! why? because we were all the same, we all had nowt, simple as that. We played out until you couldn't see the football it was so dark but we all looked out for each other.

I knew how much getting an education meant to my parents so I worked hard at school and I ended up with a decent job. You still see the same today in poorer countries. Parents move heaven and earth to give their children an education as they know it's the route to lift themselves out of poverty.

What do we have in 21st century Britain - waaaah! I'm entitled to this, waaaah! I'm entitled to that, waaaah! I want this. How did we get into this mess? Is it the 60's 70's 80's parents generations fault, is the the schools for telling children they can have it all or is it the welfare state?
 
wildman said:
easier said than done when the your means are now a lot less than what it costs to live. This country has a fundamental problem in that the cost of living far outstrips how much the average worker gets paid. It's easy to smash out broad statements like live within your means when you are sitting pretty, but the reality for many out there is that their means are simply not enough and the escalating costs of living strip any paltry raises they may see if they are lucky enough in this climate to get a decent rise at all.
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I think you are mixing up living in a manner in which you deem acceptable with living within your means.
 
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