Currently in my GS450h I'm getting about 46mpg on my daily trip from Bolton to Blackpool and back. Managed 49mpg going down to Hertford a few weeks back and the same driving down to Solihull last weekend using the M6 southbound and The Peaks on the return.
Does a hybrid make sense for motorway miles?
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Currently in my GS450h I'm getting about 46mpg on my daily trip from Bolton to Blackpool and back. Managed 49mpg going down to Hertford a few weeks back and the same driving down to Solihull last weekend using the M6 southbound and The Peaks on the return.
[TW]Fox;29892547 said:
I am not suggesting that at all, where do I say that? I was going on Fuel Economy alone which was the objective. The E class is a Better car of course, but it isn't as economical as the equivalent C class. Both the C Class and 320D well specced are adequately comfortable and many won't like the size of the E class anyway. Personally I love the E-Class but many will prefer the smaller C-Class.
If you want to take your argument to it's logical conclusion then an S Class would be better than an E-Class on the motorway..... Think about why I said the 320/C220 over those and from a non-confrontational point of view and you will see the logic you failed to first time around.
I stated what are the best hybrids I have driven but still say they are rubbish on motorways. 330E with A/C is no better than anything else hybrid at motorway speeds.
The Lexus I drove was much better than the Prius in terms of comfort, equipment handling etc but both were inferior to the BMW Hybrids. It may be based ojn the same platform as the Prius but it is a nicer place to be than the Prius.
I drive a diesel hybrid at work
http://www.alexander-dennis.com/products/enviro400h/
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
It isn't true if fuel economy alone is the objective either as there are numerous cars which are more fuel efficient than the C220 or the 320d.
It has the same engine as the C220 (And the 520d the same engine as the 320d) and is virtually as efficient whilst being more refined, more comfortable and better on the motorway. The penalty is that it is inferior once you get to the twisty roads, but as a motorway cruiser I cannot see how you can argue that a C220 or 320d are 'the 2 best diesel motorway mile munchers'. I've covered large distances in all of these cars and the larger ones really are better suited to Motorway use. The C and 3 Series are compact executive saloons - they are good all rounders but the blend is a little too shifted towards 'sport' and smaller size to make them 'the 2 best diesel motorway mile munchers'.
I'd partially agree but the S Class is only available with the larger engines and therefore there begins to be a noticeable fuel economy penalty which you do not get when you move from C Class to E Class or 320d to 520d.
[TW]Fox;29896415 said:
The new E-class 220 has a 1950cc engine and the C220 has a 2143cc engine, they are not the same engine, I think you need to check your facts a bit better Fox.
However, I have not driven the new E-Class, so cannot speak for how good it is, only the older E220 which I found was inferior in terms of economy by about 8-9mpg, probably due to it's size and weight.
All the 520D's I drove were inferior in my eyes, no significant improvement in comfort and nowhere near as nice to drive as the 3 Series, and certainly inferior in economy.
Like I said IMHO you don't have to agree, I speak as I find, but as always you don't allow anyone to have an opinion that conflicts with your own.
Oh and an S-class 300 Hybrid diesel is good for over 61mpg, but more than twice the price of the C220.
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Well that makes the new e-class less attractive to a lot of business drivers as you can't claim the 2L+ fuel allowance on it. For me, that would be about 4p a mile.
That's good news, even more fuel efficiency in the E Class
This doesn't tally with my experience at all. I have driven many F30 and F10 and found the F10 to be superior in terms of comfort and refinement and similar in terms of fuel efficiency when powered by like for like engine options.
As you'd expect from a larger car with a longer wheelbase and a higher position within the model range it is more refined, more comfortable, more stable at speed and trades almost nothing in terms of fuel efficiency - why would it, it's only the weight of two adult passengers heavier than the equivalent 3 Series.
These are cars specifically designed to offer greater comfort and refinement, so it seems odd to argue that they offer neither.
The last 3 Series I did any real distance in was a 65 plate 330d M Sport Touring. It achieved exactly 50mpg over 300 miles of Motorway. The last 5 Series I did any real distance in was my 530d which achieved, well, about the same whilst being a little more ungainly in the corners and more comfortable and more refined on the straights.
ie, exactly what you'd expect!
There is little point expressing opinion on an internet forum if you are not willing to discuss that with others who hold a different opinion.
So therefore clearly a better 'motorway mile muncher' than the C Class
Nope... Not when you take your car allowance as cash and claim the mileage.... Hence the reason I drive a 3.5L V6 petrol.
[TW]Fox;29898273 said:That's good news, even more fuel efficiency in the E Class
This doesn't tally with my experience at all. I have driven many F30 and F10 and found the F10 to be superior in terms of comfort and refinement and similar in terms of fuel efficiency when powered by like for like engine options.
As you'd expect from a larger car with a longer wheelbase and a higher position within the model range it is more refined, more comfortable, more stable at speed and trades almost nothing in terms of fuel efficiency - why would it, it's only the weight of two adult passengers heavier than the equivalent 3 Series.
These are cars specifically designed to offer greater comfort and refinement, so it seems odd to argue that they offer neither.
The last 3 Series I did any real distance in was a 65 plate 330d M Sport Touring. It achieved exactly 50mpg over 300 miles of Motorway. The last 5 Series I did any real distance in was my 530d which achieved, well, about the same whilst being a little more ungainly in the corners and more comfortable and more refined on the straights.
ie, exactly what you'd expect!
There is little point expressing opinion on an internet forum if you are not willing to discuss that with others who hold a different opinion.
So therefore clearly a better 'motorway mile muncher' than the C Class
Sure if you are happy spending about £6k more for negligible benefit, equivalent to about 1200 gallons of fuel....
But the point is about which car might be the 'best diesel motorway mile muncher', not being the cheapest possible Motorway car otherwise why not say the Focus Econetic is the best? Even more fuel efficient, much cheaper.
I don't know where you get £6k more from either - for example the difference in cost between a 320d M Sport Auto and a 520d M Sport Auto is £2540 not £6000. The difference in price between an E220 AMG Line and a C220 AMG Line is more at £4800 but there are considerable spec differences here so a like for like comparison is likely a smaller cost differential.
Frankly with a cost difference that small, IMHO the 5 Series is better value! It really feels like a step up from the 3 Series, which sadly shares it's interior design with the 1 Series - BMW's entry level hatch.
There is much to like about the 3 Series but it's focus is on being a sporting compact exec rather than a refined cruiser. This means it's strengths over the larger cars is shown off the Motorway not on it. A 3 Series is a better car to thread along a twisting road than a 5 Series and it's arguably more fun to drive, too. But it's this agility which makes its larger brother the better cruiser.
It's almost as like BMW have intended to have a range of cars, each excelling at different things..
The larger a car is, the more refined it will be on the Motorway but the less agile it'll be in the twisties.
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Because IMHO a mile muncher does the journey in a balanced way, comfort, economy, running costs including TCO, and the commute to and from the motorway.
You clearly think it is luxury alone, that is where our beliefs differ.
OK so £4.8k I hastily calculated it in my head, didn't compare the 3/5 series prices. still one hell of a saving imho.
Just deal with the fact I have a different opinion of what makes a good mile muncher. The focus econetic might be a good choice, I have only driven the 1.5 tdci and find it a bit plasticky and cramped, but each to their own.
Compact exec the 3 series is, but Sporty may be pushing it a bit.
Not going to discuss after this as you clearly have your views, I have mine. I don't like the 5 series at all so would never choose it anyway. E-Class yes, but prefer the Agility of the C for a commute and those days when you may want to take it away from a motorway jam, although for pure motorway work it would be an alternative for me.
I still stand by my opinions as the 2 best all round mile munchers, performance, comfort, economy etc etc.
You clearly think it is luxury alone, that is where our beliefs differ.
OK so £4.8k I hastily calculated it in my head, didn't compare the 3/5 series prices. still one hell of a saving imho.
Just deal with the fact I have a different opinion of what makes a good mile muncher. The focus econetic might be a good choice, I have only driven the 1.5 tdci and find it a bit plasticky and cramped, but each to their own.
Compact exec the 3 series is, but Sporty may be pushing it a bit.
Not going to discuss after this as you clearly have your views, I have mine. I don't like the 5 series at all so would never choose it anyway. E-Class yes, but prefer the Agility of the C for a commute and those days when you may want to take it away from a motorway jam, although for pure motorway work it would be an alternative for me.
I still stand by my opinions as the 2 best all round mile munchers, performance, comfort, economy etc etc.
It isn't that much of a saving as if we look at retained value after 3 years...
August 2013 320d M Sport Auto, 39k miles: £14250 trade
August 2013 520d M Sport Auto, 39k miles: £16200 trade
So that £2500 extra spent works out as being in reality only £450 more over the 3 year ownership period. You can't talk about TCO and then only consider the difference in list price when making your argument
Which leaves us with fuel - the 320d is 1.7mpg more efficient on the combined cycle than the 520d. This puts them both in the same tax band so the vehicle excise duty is the same. The 320d as standard probably has marginally cheaper tyres. But really they cost the same to run from new. Used it changes a bit as the 5 Series warranty is more expensive.
I still can't understand how you can argue that the 320d is a better Motorway car than the 520d. I totally get how you can say that you prefer the 320d as a car - but the costs and refinement aspects are pretty much fact rather than opinion. If you'd have said the 320d is a better all rounder than the 520d then this is a view that certainly has some merit - but you didn't, you specifically mentioned Motorway cruising which is one area where the 5/E Class are simply better cars than the smaller brothers. It's what they are for and it's what the manufacturers have designed them to do and it's why more money is spent on things like soundproofing.
The entire point of this forum is to discuss cars, if you are going to refuse to discuss it why even express the view in the first place?
You accuse me of never accepting anyone elses opinion but you are the one hiding behind 'thats my view' when presented with a contrary opinion. I'm *always* happy to make the case for any opinion I hold on a car and address/consider opposing views - that's the point! Let's leave the personal stuff out of it and debate cars
This is a particularly 'passionate' subject of mine as these types of cars are, rather tragically I guess, the ones I have the most interest in and are most enthusiastic about. And as a result, they are the cars I've driven the most. I've even owned both 3 and 5 Series
August 2013 320d M Sport Auto, 39k miles: £14250 trade
August 2013 520d M Sport Auto, 39k miles: £16200 trade
So that £2500 extra spent works out as being in reality only £450 more over the 3 year ownership period. You can't talk about TCO and then only consider the difference in list price when making your argument
Which leaves us with fuel - the 320d is 1.7mpg more efficient on the combined cycle than the 520d. This puts them both in the same tax band so the vehicle excise duty is the same. The 320d as standard probably has marginally cheaper tyres. But really they cost the same to run from new. Used it changes a bit as the 5 Series warranty is more expensive.
I still can't understand how you can argue that the 320d is a better Motorway car than the 520d. I totally get how you can say that you prefer the 320d as a car - but the costs and refinement aspects are pretty much fact rather than opinion. If you'd have said the 320d is a better all rounder than the 520d then this is a view that certainly has some merit - but you didn't, you specifically mentioned Motorway cruising which is one area where the 5/E Class are simply better cars than the smaller brothers. It's what they are for and it's what the manufacturers have designed them to do and it's why more money is spent on things like soundproofing.
The entire point of this forum is to discuss cars, if you are going to refuse to discuss it why even express the view in the first place?
You accuse me of never accepting anyone elses opinion but you are the one hiding behind 'thats my view' when presented with a contrary opinion. I'm *always* happy to make the case for any opinion I hold on a car and address/consider opposing views - that's the point! Let's leave the personal stuff out of it and debate cars
This is a particularly 'passionate' subject of mine as these types of cars are, rather tragically I guess, the ones I have the most interest in and are most enthusiastic about. And as a result, they are the cars I've driven the most. I've even owned both 3 and 5 Series
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[TW]Fox;29899495 said:The entire point of this forum is to discuss cars, if you are going to refuse to discuss it why even express the view in the first place?
Quite simple Fox, we have different beliefs on what makes a good mile muncher so we will never agree. Arguing semantics endlessly to try and win an argument might be your fun way of spending the day (going by your usual posts) but it isn't mine.
Cya
I find citing agility for a reason to prefer a C220d over an E220d or 520d really quite amusing.
Especially in a discussion about what makes the best motorway mile muncher. Can't say agility has ever been at the forefront of my mind when thinking about the best way to drive in a straight line for an hour
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I've currently got a new shape Skoda Superb SE L Exec, it is beautiful on the motorway, I only asked about the hybrid question purely to see if a hybrid stacked up on economy vs tax.
I guess it doesn't, even if my company pays more money for petrol mileage?
I guess it doesn't, even if my company pays more money for petrol mileage?
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What sort of economy do you see out of the Superb? As you can see there are a number of varying views but certainly possible to match or exceed the economy figure of the Superb I expect. That said in that sort of size/spec you may struggle for options in that sort of price bracket as the much nicer hybrids are a bit steeper than that, and the lower end ones may be a bit of a downgrade.
Especially in a discussion about what makes the best motorway mile muncher. Can't say agility has ever been at the forefront of my mind when thinking about the best way to drive in a straight line for an hour
Gotta have those super-stable high-speed lane changes tho.
Especially in a discussion about what makes the best motorway mile muncher. Can't say agility has ever been at the forefront of my mind when thinking about the best way to drive in a straight line for an hour
I have a 10 mile drive to the M5 but yeah I guess most people have a motorway slip road as a driveway
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I'm about 0.5ml from the A road and then about a 1 mile (maybe less) from the M20.
I drive about 20 miles up it then the last 7 is a mix of A-road, with say the last 3 being main urban road.
If I am out of my satellite office then its about 90 miles of motorway.
Occasionally I go out to our factories which can be a mix of motorway all the way down to almost dirt track.
Effectively I drive about 85% motorway I guess.
In terms of economy I do about 50-57mpg I think on a trip.