Soldato
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Brexit thread - what happens next
- Thread starter Gilly
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No need we will just ignore the first as it was non-binding anyway
Yay, democracy.
Yay, democracy.
The EU referendum was an anti-democratic mess. Regardless of what way you voted and whether you like the outcome or not, it's hard to see it as a healthy way to decide major constitutional issues.
I doubt we'll see any more referendums again in the UK, on any issue. Not because people don't like the result, but because they don't like the process.
Soldato
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Nonsense from ******** echo chambers, but if it helps you cope with being on the wrong side of history...
How did you come up with this? How is it anti-democratic to ask the people a question and put it to a vote? How is democracy anti-democratic?
Obviously, the 'great and the good' who think they have a (divine) 'right' to decide over the heads of the people what will be will scream and whine at the outcome of democracy, but I'm rather less worried about them.
Got your Leave crystal ball out again?
Soldato
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The result was 52% Leave, mayte, it was on the news and everything!
Indeed, anti-democratic it is not, unwise to the extreme perhaps, but you do not need to be of sound mind to vote:
Democracy comes in various flavours. Britain is a representative democracy. Referendums are direct democracy. It's possible to argue that these are incompatible because direct democracy undermines and contradicts representative democracy. Hence anti-democratic (i.e. anti the form of democracy usually used to decide policy in the UK).
Regarding the EU referendum, many people didn't vote in response to the question at hand, instead voting on a range of other agendas not necessarily anything to do with the EU. That's an inherent risk with a referendum, you can't be sure anyone is voting on the issue at hand and the debate is easily hijacked or distorted. It's no surprise that referendums were the 'democracy' of choice for a number of dictators in the past, including Hitler and Mussolini.
What shall we decide by referendum next then? I'm sure many are happy with the EU referendum because they got the result they wanted. But perhaps next time it'll be something they'd rather wasn't put to a populist, simplified, polarised, poorly debated vote?
Soldato
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No need we will just ignore the first as it was non-binding anyway
That would not be well received. The government that did that would be toast at the next GE.
I'd like a referendum on Capital punishment, just to see if a much simpler issue generates a better campaign.
You can do all of the mental gymnastics you like. The vote was democratic and voted how they wanted. I think it was the truest form of democracy
Soldato
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Bah the issue wont be simple. There will be someone out there that will link an unrelated agenda to it and then it will become the main driving point of the campaign.
And so is the government that follows through on it. Damned if the don't, damned if they do.
It's not just mental gymnastics.
The current situation is that we have a government elected via representative democracy being asked to implement a major nation-changing policy they don't have in their manifesto, because of a direct democracy referendum. How is that not one form of democracy undermining the other?
If direct democracy is the "truest" form, why aren't we using it to decide on everything?
Our elected politicians have got a terrible reputation these days and have done a lot to damage representative democracy. But is direct democracy any better when it is so easily hijacked by populism, knee-jerk responses, extremism and deceit? It's a fast-track to mob rule.
Both were decided on by a clear majority.
You have a short memory, it was in their manifesto
Horses for courses. But i agree with need to switch to PR, just look at the UKIP result in the last election
Being in favour of leaving the EU was NOT in the manifesto of the Conservative Party. Having a referendum on it was of course. But the official Conservative stance was Remain.
Funny how your poster boy Nige didn't think 52-48 was a 'clear majority' when he thought Leave was going to lose....in fact he said there would be an unstoppable demand for a second referendum...
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Not really, people voted for random things that were only tenuously related to the actual vote for leaving or remaining in the EU.
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