British backpacker in Australia killed by French national yelling "Allahu akbar"

Spuj · 24 Aug 2016 at 11:40

The **** is wrong with people. RIP

do_ron_ron · 24 Aug 2016 at 11:45

scorza said:
RIP Awful. A British 8 year old kid was killed in a grenade attack in Sweden yesterday too We've been so, so dumb...

A gangland feud. Target used to stay in that flat is what was reported on Sky News channel.

McGray · 24 Aug 2016 at 11:53

RaohNS said:
There are more not being reported. Just look at at news websites.

Roar87 · 24 Aug 2016 at 13:19

Let's not jump to conclusions till we've heard the facts....

Dicehunter · 24 Aug 2016 at 13:52

Roar87 said:
Let's not jump to conclusions till we've heard the facts....

The fact is yet another muslim has killed a person for his deity.

Yes I know not all muslims are like this as that would be like saying all Christians want to go on Crusades all the time BUT this is becoming a daily problem all over the planet.

NoobCannon · 24 Aug 2016 at 13:56

^^

Prob get banned for saying that. The fsb will soon be here to mod it (and this prob)

Freefaller · 24 Aug 2016 at 14:24

Dicehunter said:
The fact is yet another muslim has killed a person for his deity.

Yes I know not all muslims are like this as that would be like saying all Christians want to go on Crusades all the time BUT this is becoming a daily problem all over the planet.

But we don't say the same when another black on black crime is committed or when another white supremacist has shot people (mainly in the states) or the plethora of other "common" group does something.

I think it is unfair to continually bang the "it's the Muslims" drum. Whereas it is a group of nutters that hide behind Islam as a way of appeasing any guilt for what they are doing.

Saying anything else is just sensationalism and just serves to create a bigger divide in society.

RaohNS · 24 Aug 2016 at 14:27

Having started reading the Koran recently its easy to see why these "painful and merciful" acts are committed against "non-believers".

Lots of talk of pain and the non-believers and I'm not even onto Women yet :eek:

Xordium · 24 Aug 2016 at 14:28

Freefaller said:
But we don't say the same when another black on black crime is committed or when another white supremacist has shot people (mainly in the states) or the plethora of other "common" group does something.

I think it is unfair to continually bang the "it's the Muslims" drum. Whereas it is a group of nutters that hide behind Islam as a way of appeasing any guilt for what they are doing.

Saying anything else is just sensationalism and just serves to create a bigger divide in society.

Isn't it disparaging to people with mental health problems to label violent extremists as 'nutters'? :confused:

Surely, that is driving a divide and a prejudice in our society against a collection of diseases that will with a degree of certainty impact every single member of this forum directly or indirectly?

Dis86 · 24 Aug 2016 at 14:31

So then Freefaller, why do you think so many are attracted to it to use it as a cause?
We all hear the same story that black crime is committed due to deprivation so why so much Islamic crime the world over? Remember Osama bin laden was from a very wealthy and influential family. A number of brits that joined isis also came from very privileged backgrounds.

Terminal_Boy · 24 Aug 2016 at 14:49

Tefal said:
seems like it was a gang killing, in retribution for another gang killing

Correct. "Swedish" Somalis being very un-Swedish and a "British" Somali got in the way.

scorza · 24 Aug 2016 at 14:49

do_ron_ron said:
A gangland feud. Target used to stay in that flat is what was reported on Sky News channel.

That makes it better does it? Perhaps you just don't care because the victim is black...

Dis86 · 24 Aug 2016 at 14:55

scorza said:
That makes it better does it? Perhaps you just don't care because the victim is black...

That's a bit of a leap of logic!

Freefaller · 24 Aug 2016 at 15:01

Xordium said:
Isn't it disparaging to people with mental health problems to label violent extremists as 'nutters'?

Surely, that is driving a divide and a prejudice in our society against a collection of diseases that will with a degree of certainty impact every single member of this forum directly or indirectly?

I'm not suggesting that the use of the word "nutter" meant people with mental problems, and that such people are violent extremists but I concede it was perhaps a bad choice of words.

How about confused individuals? Better?

Dis86 said:
So then Freefaller, why do you think so many are attracted to it to use it as a cause?

That's a very good question. Similarly, why are people attracted to deviant sexual behaviours that are illegal? Why are people attracted to violence? Why are people drawn to mass hysteria and cult-like following of anything in the world? Football for example?

I don't have the answers - just observations.

We all hear the same story that black crime is committed due to deprivation so why so much Islamic crime the world over? Remember Osama bin laden was from a very wealthy and influential family. A number of brits that joined isis also came from very privileged backgrounds.

Power? Corruption? Confusion? Brainwashing? Idealism?

Why are people drawn to all sorts of causes? Because they believe it to the be the right direction or it rings true for them? Lost all hope? Nothing to lose? Nothing else to live for? I don't know.

Xordium · 24 Aug 2016 at 15:18

Freefaller said:
I'm not suggesting that the use of the word "nutter" meant people with mental problems, and that such people are violent extremists but I concede it was perhaps a bad choice of words.

How about confused individuals? Better?

I never thought you did. But it isn't really a bad choice of words it's a word that is derogatory. You can't denounce anti-Muslim rhetoric in a post whilst being derogatory towards a protected group in the same post. That's the inconsistency that I highlighted when the new moderation started. That means some self-reflection and the insight to change for everyone. Normal member or mod.

Maybe we should be quite objective on how we describe people. The people you were describing were/are Islamic Terrorists. They are Islamic, they are more than just extremists who don't necessarily act out physically, and they are terrorists. They are also most certainly Islamic in sentiment and self-identification.

If someone is a self-identifying Muslim and they carry out an attack for political/religious reasons to promote what they see as the a truer path for Islam then they are Islamic Terrorists.

If someone is a self-identifying Muslim and they carry out an attack because they have delusional beliefs, that could be diagnosed, then it is far to attribute to the disease process as the instigator rather than the religion.

That is unless we do the sensible thing and recognise that religious experience is identical and no different from medical described delusion when one removes the artificial social context that is added to religion to preclude it from the definition in most cases. The same pathways are served in the brain, the same centres stimulated, the same symptoms exhibited and both convince the person that their action is correct and grounded in a reality that very few educated people would be willing to accept exists.

dowie · 24 Aug 2016 at 15:21

Freefaller said:
B
I think it is unfair to continually bang the "it's the Muslims" drum. Whereas it is a group of nutters that hide behind Islam as a way of appeasing any guilt for what they are doing.

that just doesn't reflect reality... Islam (or rather radical Islam) is often the motivator for these actions not simply an excuse - to paint it that way is to deny there is an issue which is part of the problem we face in the first place when trying to tackle this issue

Freefaller · 24 Aug 2016 at 15:34

Of course the fact they are Muslim is factual, but the point is, it is not BECAUSE they are Muslim that they are radical, they have been radicalised and are Muslim - it's not causal, which a lot of people constantly bang on about.

Freefaller · 24 Aug 2016 at 15:35

Xordium said:
I never thought you did. But it isn't really a bad choice of words it's a word that is derogatory. You can't denounce anti-Muslim rhetoric in a post whilst being derogatory towards a protected group in the same post. That's the inconsistency that I highlighted when the new moderation started. That means some self-reflection and the insight to change for everyone. Normal member or mod.

Maybe we should be quite objective on how we describe people. The people you were describing were/are Islamic Terrorists. They are Islamic, they are more than just extremists who don't necessarily act out physically, and they are terrorists. They are also most certainly Islamic in sentiment and self-identification.

If someone is a self-identifying Muslim and they carry out an attack for political/religious reasons to promote what they see as the a truer path for Islam then they are Islamic Terrorists.

If someone is a self-identifying Muslim and they carry out an attack because they have delusional beliefs, that could be diagnosed, then it is far to attribute to the disease process as the instigator rather than the religion.

That is unless we do the sensible thing and recognise that religious experience is identical and no different from medical described delusion when one removes the artificial social context that is added to religion to preclude it from the definition in most cases. The same pathways are served in the brain, the same centres stimulated, the same symptoms exhibited and both convince the person that their action is correct and grounded in a reality that very few educated people would be willing to accept exists.

I'm just a normal member, and I make mistakes. I happen to have an edit button, that's it.

chief barker · 24 Aug 2016 at 15:44

Perhaps if they didn't shout 'Alahu ackbar' just before going on a killing spree this group of people wouldn't be persecuted so often?

chief barker · 24 Aug 2016 at 15:48

Thanks for the edit mods.