What are people's thoughts on the burkini ban in France?

[richthomuk]

Right, but the Burka isn't a necessary part of Islam. They can go to the beach in regular bikinis. There's nothing stopping them. To my knowledge (and I appreciate anyone providing links to show me I'm wrong) the only requirement is the head covering.

Really... I will refute as you clearly know nothing of Islam or the subject you are talking about.

No, it is not permitted, according to Islamic Law, for a woman to wear bathing suits and to appear in that in front of people, whether men or women. Whoever does that has done something that Allaah has forbidden and thus deserves His punishment and curse.

The woman who does that should be rebuked and reminded of the fearful punishment of Allaah, and she should be called to repent.

It is not permissible to look at a woman when she is wearing these “naked” clothes, because Muslim (338) narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No man should look at the ‘awrah of another man, and no woman should look at the ‘awrah of another woman.”

So for people that follow an Islamic religion and it's beliefs cant just rock up with her rack out at a beach and they believe there will be consequences for doing so... Now seems as this thread was about a Burkini, I see it as a good thing as it allows women greater freedom even though I 100% agree that being forced to cover up is a horrible thing and violates human rights. And its not just that the head covering is a requirement.

 

[Brizzles]

You do realise the religion is just an abstract inanimate idea? A book literally can't do anything other than sit on a shelf, it is not even a weapon.

To a normal person , Yes.

Then why base a terror campaign backed up by a religion or the Quran, Isis/Ilil/Daesh , if it is just an inanimate object ?

If a belief is just that, then why does Islam deem it the only true religion, and won't accept other other religions ?

Your whole basis of religion doesn't kill , people do - Is massively flawed.

You are articulate and knowledgable in your posts, yet you continue to deflect any posts that don't fit in with your single sighted point of view.

 

[Dis86]

Really... I will refute as you clearly know nothing of Islam or the subject you are talking about.

No, it is not permitted, according to Islamic Law, for a woman to wear bathing suits and to appear in that in front of people, whether men or women. Whoever does that has done something that Allaah has forbidden and thus deserves His punishment and curse.

The woman who does that should be rebuked and reminded of the fearful punishment of Allaah, and she should be called to repent.

It is not permissible to look at a woman when she is wearing these “naked” clothes, because Muslim (338) narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No man should look at the ‘awrah of another man, and no woman should look at the ‘awrah of another woman.”

So for people that follow an Islamic religion and it's beliefs cant just rock up with her rack out at a beach and they believe there will be consequences for doing so... Now seems as this thread was about a Burkini, I see it as a good thing as it allows women greater freedom even though I 100% agree that being forced to cover up is a horrible thing and violates human rights. And its not just that the head covering is a requirement.

Can you stick to using English so i can at least understand what you're saying?
Please quote sections of the Koran that state they must be fully covered. Islamic law is a load of crap made up by racist, sexist men to control people.

 

[Safetytrousers]

To a normal person , Yes.

Then why base a terror campaign backed up by a religion or the Quran, Isis/Ilil/Daesh , if it is just an insignificant object ?

Your whole basis of religion doesn't kill , people do - Is massively flawed.
.

'Abstract inanimate idea' does not equate to 'insignificant'.
It is a point of fact that it is people that carry guns, knives, machetes and set off bombs. Books don't animate and do that.

I'm not sure what all Muon's points have been, but his quoted statement there is literally true.

 

[Brizzles]

'Abstract inanimate idea' does not equate to 'insignificant'.

You are correct, i have amended my post from insignificant to inanimate.

That was a typo.

 

[richthomuk]

Can you stick to using English so i can at least understand what you're saying?
Please quote sections of the Koran that state they must be fully covered. Islamic law is a load of crap made up by racist, sexist men to control people.

lmao so even when i provide you with what you want it isnt good enough. Thought that might have been the case.

When did this thread become a "Bash Islam" thread, are the mods not around as a lot of what is written in here is pretty insensitive and I'm sure we have Muslims and other Islamic members on this forum.

 

[adolf hamster]

can't say i support the targeted restriction of islam like that.

if there was a blanket ban of all religiously connected clothing (including crucifix's, skull caps, turbans and ceremonial knives for example) i might agree, but placing sanctions on one religion in favour of others isn't something i can accept.

its a rule for all or a rule for none, where there is rule for one there is inequality and i'm sure the french principles have something about equality in there somewhere.

 

[Dis86]

lmao so even when i provide you with what you want it isnt good enough. Thought that might have been the case.

When did this thread become a "Bash Islam" thread, are the mods not around as a lot of what is written in here is pretty insensitive and I'm sure we have Muslims and other Islamic members on this forum.

You've provided no sources. Ergo, you've provided nothing.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

It doesn't cover the face therefore it's a joke of a ban. Just leave people alone.

I'm in favour of Governments and people in general leaving other's alone who aren't harming any one else. Stay out of it!

 

[muon]

You've provided no sources. Ergo, you've provided nothing.

The Qur'an does specify at the very least what is known as Hijab. Cover hair, chest and a dress which drops relatively low.

It is vague in it's exact definition, which is where stricter (and less strict) dress codes get interpreted.

It is safe to say a bikini wouldn't even come close.

 

[robgmun]

Indeed, a few weeks ago in another thread i pointed out that 1% of 1.6 billion is a very large amount of people, I got shot down as usual.

If there is more than 1% then what's that saying, God help us

25% of British born Muslims would like to see Sharia Law implemented in this country. That worries me greatly.

 

[robgmun]

A phobia is an irrational fear.

A fear of an extremely powerful, extremely power-hungry and extremely oppressive micro-managing ideology that's dominated by tyranny and extreme violence and brutality is not an irrational fear.

Deliberately pretending one is the other is a very good way of silencing dissent, though. It's a useful tool in the armory of conquest.

Thank you, perfect post. I have a problem with the word Islamophobia as well as it's a made up word and it's not irrational to be wary and see it as a problem for western countries.

 

[Angilion]

Right, but the Burka isn't a necessary part of Islam. They can go to the beach in regular bikinis. There's nothing stopping them. To my knowledge (and I appreciate anyone providing links to show me I'm wrong) the only requirement is the head covering.

Since the main purpose of Islam is to control every aspect of everyone's lives, it can safely be assumed that it includes control over what people wear, with things either required or forbidden.

What's rather less clear is the details of what is required clothing and what is forbidden clothing. It comes down to how people with enough power interpret various bits of writing, which provides enough material to allow for quite a few different interpretations. Human language is often not very precise. What, for example, is modesty?

However, given the Islamic requirement for control over everything it is rather unlikely that a woman under the rule of Islam would be allowed to wear a bikini. That would be granting her far too much freedom and it might also impinge on religious control over sexuality. Controlling primitive parts of life, such as sex and food, are important to controlling every part of everyone's life.

 

[Amp34]

These images pretty much sum up my opinion on the matter...

 

[Energize]

I think telling people what they can and can't wear is very authoritarian, so I can't support it on principal.

 

[Dis86]

I think telling people what they can and can't wear is very authoritarian, so I can't support it on principal.

But what about the fact that these same women have been told they need to wear it in the first place?

 

[adolf hamster]

But what about the fact that these same women have been told they need to wear it in the first place?

not by their government though, religion yes, but in the western world we have this wonderful thing called choice, and people can choose not to follow a religion if they want.

yes there are social consequences (freinds, family, local community etc) but the simple fact is there are social consequences for everything, it's just wether or not you choose to accept them.

besides, the bhurkini is a covering, and some women may want more covering than your standard western bikini, these women would wear for example long shorts and a shirt to the beach, is there anything wrong with that?

 

[Energize]

But what about the fact that these same women have been told they need to wear it in the first place?

I think it's irrelevant really. And I don't think that this ban will help those individuals at all. Trying to achieve equality by authoritarianism is not a society I want to live in.

 

[Dis86]

I think it's irrelevant really. And I don't think that this ban will help those individuals at all. Trying to achieve equality by authoritarianism is not a society I want to live in.

But you're happy to live in a society where people are forced to act in certain ways by religion?

 

[Dis86]

not by their government though, religion yes, but in the western world we have this wonderful thing called choice, and people can choose not to follow a religion if they want.

yes there are social consequences (freinds, family, local community etc) but the simple fact is there are social consequences for everything, it's just wether or not you choose to accept them.

besides, the bhurkini is a covering, and some women may want more covering than your standard western bikini, these women would wear for example long shorts and a shirt to the beach, is there anything wrong with that?

Have a quick read on honour killings. You'll soon realise they don't always have a choice.