Japan's Unprecedented Warning To UK Over Brexit

[Orionaut]

Did anyone see a prog on BBC2 last night called "A Very British Deterrent"? It was about how the UK got the USA to give us the Polaris nuclear missile submarine technology in the '60s. How this relates to Brexit is that at the start the US was all against making Britain a nuclear superpower, then they'd only give us a crappy air-launched nuclear missile call SkyBolt, and eventually we ended up with Polaris. How did we manage this? We had a Prime Minister who believed in Britain - how important we were, who refused to take no for an answer from both Eisenhower and JFK, and who was prepared to walk away from a deal if it wasn't in Britain's interests to continue with that deal. Very interesting and I think could be very useful for the politicians and officials who will be conducting the Brexit negotiations on our behalf.

And IIRC we managed to cobble together, at the time, an absurdly massive "fission" bomb that convinced the yanks that we were now firmly in the thermonuclear club. Which is why they went along with us.

The bottom line,,The USA is NOT our friend! (And neither is the EUSSR) We need to get back to making our own way in the world, Like we used to!

 

[Faustus]

Well I don't know why we don't just get rid of our politicians, economists and all the other experts and employ everyone on the OCUK forum.

Why not, you obviously all have the answers, you know that everyone is bluffing and Britain is going to get fantastic trade deals at no cost to ourselves and god help anyone that stands in our way.

If Churchill had had some of you in 1940 the troops would have been home by Christmas.

 

[No1newts]

Read about this and found it in parts amusing/ironic and sad that Sunderland became almost a posterboy of leave and they will be a deadzone of unemployment and economic depression if Nissan leaves.

 

[No1newts]

Nissan does not exist in a bubble. It is supported by a large number of other firms in the Sunderland area, all of whom employ people.

+1 it is a huge employer and when you take into account all the businesses which supply into Nissan (a large number of the car parts are now manufactured locally to save on import) it would murder the local economy.

 

[ZG002]

Did they vote for Brexit? Or are you just generalising because you think they work in a factory so must be working class, and it's working class people who mainly voted Leave?

Oh they voted exit alright! I live about 10mins away from Nissan my Mrs works there (voted remain) and my best man also (10yrs there) but most of "The lads" it would seem were voting to leave, Sunderland voted to leave.

Complete insanity in my mind, why force your employer to do the sums on your future?

It's got the potential completely ruin a place that's already at the wrong end of the unemployment charts.

 

[ZG002]

Read about this and found it in parts amusing/ironic and sad that Sunderland became almost a posterboy of leave and they will be a deadzone of unemployment and economic depression if Nissan leaves.

People travel from all over the north east to work at Nissan, it will hit the whole region hard if they do leave.

They have just invested millions in the site, which I think gave a lot of employees a false sense of security. I'm praying it doesn't come to it.

 

[Cern]

Oh they voted exit alright! I live about 10mins away from Nissan my Mrs works there (voted remain) and my best man also (10yrs there) but most of "The lads" it would seem were voting to leave, Sunderland voted to leave.

Complete insanity in my mind, why force your employer to do the sums on your future?

It's got the potential completely ruin a place that's already at the wrong end of the unemployment charts.

Can I ask what their motivations were for voting Leave (if they've told you of course)? Sounds like they all have skilled and steady jobs that Brexit potentially puts at risk. Why would they take a gamble on their and their families' futures?

 

[Stolly]

And IIRC we managed to cobble together, at the time, an absurdly massive "fission" bomb that convinced the yanks that we were now firmly in the thermonuclear club. Which is why they went along with us.

The bottom line,,The USA is NOT our friend! (And neither is the EUSSR) We need to get back to making our own way in the world, Like we used to!

"Like we used to" is the subjugation of less industrially advanced peoples so we could gain exclusive access to their natural resources at low cost and force them to buy our manufactured goods in return.

The impossibility of doing that in the post colonial world is why we joined the worlds largest free trade zone.

 

[Stolly]

Can I ask what their motivations were for voting Leave (if they've told you of course)? Sounds like they all have skilled and steady jobs that Brexit potentially puts at risk. Why would they take a gamble on their and their families' futures?

I'll put money on it being immigration and the irony of them being employed by a foreign company will be entirely lost on them.

 

[ZG002]

Can I ask what their motivations were for voting Leave (if they've told you of course)? Sounds like they all have skilled and steady jobs that Brexit potentially puts at risk. Why would they take a gamble on their and their families' futures?

The majority of the work force is made up of none skilled labour. Well not "skilled" in the traditional sense. They are skilled in one particular job (some times two or three) I worked on the line for a short time myself.

Up here the biggest argument I always hear is close our borders send them back...

I never hear a convincing argument about house prices, interest rates, eu laws etc. It's always immigration.

Not great to admit to and I was shocked at the result up here (posted in the thread as it was happening)

Most of them couldn't be bothered to even vote when it was general elections, but hey they can do their bit to stop Sunderland being over run....

I don't understand it myself, Seems utterly backwards to me

 

[ZG002]

I'll put money on it being immigration and the irony of them being employed by a foreign company will be entirely lost on them.

Bingo lol

 

[Tefal]

Britain is going to get fantastic trade deals at no cost to ourselves and god help anyone that stands in our way.

But no one but you is saying this

Pretty much all the leave people are talking about sensible comprimises, just like the EU governments are saying

The only people screamkng about amazing deals or horrific deals are the remain camp.


Take the car industry since we are talking aboht nissan.

The uk leaves the EU ok.


Now who benifits from putting a 10% tariff on cars?

Not the uk, we lose our abiloty to sell our cars competitively in europe.

Not japan, or any other forgien investor they lose the ability to harness Britain's locations and skill base and eother the uk or the continental market for thier car depending on which side of the channel they go.

Not germany, or the other big eu powers who lose a major buyer of thier exports.

Only place thag could possibly win is the poor EU nations like poland or bulgaria who could leverage cheap labour to try and tempt the car firms in.

But that saving wpuldnt be enpugh to acxount fkr the losses of the major economies on both sides and externally.


So what posaible reason would there be for pushing for tariffs on the auto trade?
I

ts bad for Britain, its bad for europe, its bad foe tbe global economy.


That not some mythical fantastic trade deal, thats just common sense.


Remember we are comming at negotiations backwards for the first time ever.

We sre not comming from 2 seperate rule books, 2 differnt sets of regulations with tariffs in place on both sides.


We are comming at this with 100% harmonised, production, regulations and completely tariff free.

It makes sense to work from that point backwards.

Whats mutually benificial remains tariff free what each side wants to protect gets protected in turn.

And that works both ways.



Leave arent talking aboht some flights of fancy just common sense coming from sensible negotiations.

Where as you continually espouse the idea that they EU would happily butcher it's self and its prosperity for no other reason than you think this is still the school playground

 

[Tefal]

The majority of the work force is made up of none skilled labour. Well not "skilled" in the traditional sense. They are skilled in one particular job (some times two or three) I worked on the line for a short time myself.

.I'd take a wild stab in the dark here but i bet all thier suport/outsourced staff (cleaners, parts prep, logisitcs/supply etc) is no longer British /english.


Core staff/skilled/semi skilled fitters remain safe yet everything basic gets cut and replaced with polish or Bulgarians as more and more cut backs are made in ever more competitive outsourcing bids.


Then later on you realise a lot of those cleaners, and fork lift drivers, supply staff, canteen workers used to the core lads, sisters, girlfriends, old school mates, cousins etc.

The fitters might be safe but they'll all know a few people lost in the contract change overs

 

[ZG002]

.I'd take a wild stab in the dark here but i bet all thier suport/outsourced staff (cleaners, parts prep, logisitcs/supply etc) is no longer British /english.


Core staff/skilled/semi skilled fitters remain safe yet everything basic gets cut and replaced with polish or Bulgarians as more and more cut backs are made in ever more competitive outsourcing bids.


Then later on you realise a lot of those cleaners, and fork lift drivers, supply staff, canteen workers used to the core lads, sisters, girlfriends, old school mates, cousins etc.

The fitters might be safe but they'll all know a few people lost in the contract change overs

Most are British, all canteen staff are British to my knowledge (My Mrs works in that part) fair few have been there from the start.

Logistics etc are handled mostly by Vantec which from the outside at least seems to be mostly local. I have no idea about the feeder companies like Calsonic, but I know they have a steady stream of local employees (mass unemployment up here) but a lot only last a few weeks (it's pretty hard going on line 1)

Most of the car transporters are either in house or a local company with the odd Eddie Stobart wagon doing the port run, the lads loading the cars at the port are mostly local lads have about 5 friends who do or have done that job.

We don't have a large ethnic minority up here.

Of course there will be lots of jobs not done by English lads, but it really isn't apparent when in there.

You get a few guys from India and Japan coming over to check out our processes, belive it or not the plant is more efficient than its Japanese counterpart. (Or so the line managers etc say)

 

[Cern]

The majority of the work force is made up of none skilled labour. Well not "skilled" in the traditional sense. They are skilled in one particular job (some times two or three) I worked on the line for a short time myself.

Up here the biggest argument I always hear is close our borders send them back...

I never hear a convincing argument about house prices, interest rates, eu laws etc. It's always immigration.

Not great to admit to and I was shocked at the result up here (posted in the thread as it was happening)

Most of them couldn't be bothered to even vote when it was general elections, but hey they can do their bit to stop Sunderland being over run....

I don't understand it myself, Seems utterly backwards to me

The sad thing is that many of the people they want to "send home" ARE home, at least as they perceive it. In most cases they are someone's friends, work colleagues, partners, carers, employees, you name it. In short they are all just people looking to make the best of life and most share exactly the same values.

Many came to the the UK to make Britain home, to integrate, to become in the fullness of time British. The whole "benefit scrounging" and "leeches sending money back home" thing is a crude and lazy stereotype whipped up by the tabloids (it happens of course, but it's not the majority).

All this intolerance is like winding the clock back to the 1950s / 1960s, and it's deeply sad to see that most of the progress this country appeared to have made was actually just papering over the cracks with political correctness.

 

[Mr Badger]

The bottom line,,The USA is NOT our friend! (And neither is the EUSSR) We need to get back to making our own way in the world, Like we used to!

Is there any actual evidence that India etc. want the British empire back in control?

 

[n111ck]

The sad thing is that many of the people they want to "send home" ARE home, at least as they perceive it. In most cases they are someone's friends, work colleagues, partners, carers, employees, you name it. In short they are all just people looking to make the best of life and most share exactly the same values.

Many came to the the UK to make Britain home, to integrate, to become in the fullness of time British. The whole "benefit scrounging" and "leeches sending money back home" thing is a crude and lazy stereotype whipped up by the tabloids (it happens of course, but it's not the majority).

All this intolerance is like winding the clock back to the 1950s / 1960s, and it's deeply sad to see that most of the progress this country appeared to have made was actually just papering over the cracks with political correctness.

There are lots of countries in the EU - what is the appeal of the UK that attracts unskilled workers, asylum seekers and illegal immigrants?

 

[Cern]

There are lots of countries in the EU - what is the appeal of the UK that attracts unskilled workers, asylum seekers and illegal immigrants?

We're talking here about legal free movement within the EU of EU citizens. Can you please take your rantings and ravings about asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to a more appropriate thread, or start one if there isn't one.

 

[Amp34]

But no one but you is saying this

Pretty much all the leave people are talking about sensible comprimises, just like the EU governments are saying

The only people screamkng about amazing deals or horrific deals are the remain camp.


Take the car industry since we are talking aboht nissan.

The uk leaves the EU ok.


Now who benifits from putting a 10% tariff on cars?

Not the uk, we lose our abiloty to sell our cars competitively in europe.

Not japan, or any other forgien investor they lose the ability to harness Britain's locations and skill base and eother the uk or the continental market for thier car depending on which side of the channel they go.

Not germany, or the other big eu powers who lose a major buyer of thier exports.

Only place thag could possibly win is the poor EU nations like poland or bulgaria who could leverage cheap labour to try and tempt the car firms in.

But that saving wpuldnt be enpugh to acxount fkr the losses of the major economies on both sides and externally.


So what posaible reason would there be for pushing for tariffs on the auto trade?
I

ts bad for Britain, its bad for europe, its bad foe tbe global economy.


That not some mythical fantastic trade deal, thats just common sense.


Remember we are comming at negotiations backwards for the first time ever.

We sre not comming from 2 seperate rule books, 2 differnt sets of regulations with tariffs in place on both sides.


We are comming at this with 100% harmonised, production, regulations and completely tariff free.

It makes sense to work from that point backwards.

Whats mutually benificial remains tariff free what each side wants to protect gets protected in turn.

And that works both ways.



Leave arent talking aboht some flights of fancy just common sense coming from sensible negotiations.

Where as you continually espouse the idea that they EU would happily butcher it's self and its prosperity for no other reason than you think this is still the school playground

Except the EU putting tarrifs on car parts is more in their favour than us doing is. It'll push car manufacturers to bring more manufacturing in house, rather than imported from the UK,meaning more work for EU workers... Your argument is basically the same for all products, yet we as societies still insist on putting tarrifs on most stuff we trade around the world. Tarrifs are meant to protect your own industry, and in this case it would be the EU car manufacturing industry over manufacturing in Britain.

Basically it's not as clear cut and equal as you make it out to be. Tariffs are a significantly smaller negative to the EU than us.

 

[n111ck]

We're talking here about legal free movement within the EU of EU citizens. Can you please take your rantings and ravings about asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to a more appropriate thread, or start one if there isn't one.

Same question then but with the illegals etc removed if that helps.