AMD RX480, nVidia 1060 GTX 6GB or save a bit more for 1070GTX?

[Rroff]

I'd be careful using Hitman as an example of anything TBH the engine is a bit meh at best - I'm pretty sure if someone went in their stripped it out and rebuilt it hand optimised you'd see a lot different performance delta over the different cards.

 

[humbug]

I'd be careful using Hitman as an example of anything TBH the engine is a bit meh at best - I'm pretty sure if someone went in their stripped it out and rebuilt it hand optimised you'd see a lot different performance delta over the different cards.

The Engine, someone took the base engine and messed about with it, that is nothing unusual, you should know yourself that the inside and back end of any engine is open to be manipulated, they need to be so the dev can customise it to their requirements.

That has nothing to do with this game, talking a version of the same base engine and messing about with it is nothing to do with the game, just because they are made on the same type of engine.

The dev will have customised the base engine for their own needs, AMD and Nvidia will have had their input, this is the result of all that.

 

[maonayze]

1070 gtx start from 350 and falling.so not £450

by christmas some 1070s will be £300.

doom amd invested a lot to get the driver right.remember before they did that the amd cards were well behind. so take all with a pinch of salt.

the 1070 gtx is quite a bit faster than a 480.

Yes Dg's right. 11 FPS in DX12 and 6 FPS in Vulkan. Still not too bad for the extra £130 eh!

 

[Rroff]

The Engine, someone took the base engine and messed about with it, that is nothing unusual, you should know yourself that the inside and back end of any engine is open to be manipulated, they need to be so the dev can customise it to their requirements.

That has nothing to do with this game, talking a version of the same base engine and messing about with it is nothing to do with the game, just because they are made on the same type of engine.

The dev will have customised the base engine for their own needs, AMD and Nvidia will have had their input, this is the result of all that.

Don't think you are quite getting what I mean - neither Hitman or DX:MD run that great really the engine feels like it is lacking low level optimisation and/or wasn't really intended for the DX11 API - which may also ruin how it runs on DX12 or Vulkan due to the changes that would need to be made to support both DX11 and DX12 taking the assumption the problem is it was originally envisaged as designed for a more DX12/Vulkan like environment.

 

[~>Dg<~]

The RX 480 starts at £199.99 but i'm talking about what you would pay for a good one.

Doom in Vulkan like Hitman in DX12 has A-synchronous shading, something no Nvidia card has.

also a AMD sponsered game. i wonder why they chose it.

 

[maonayze]

I'd be careful using Hitman as an example of anything TBH the engine is a bit meh at best - I'm pretty sure if someone went in their stripped it out and rebuilt it hand optimised you'd see a lot different performance delta over the different cards.

This has been my issue all along. I keep saying that the devs should just get the best out of both AMD and Nvidia cards in each particular game. If devs used all the features of each card and did all the optimizations then it would be better for all, regardless of who is the fastest card overall.

Many people in these forums chase way too many benchmarks because they like to be the top dog on someones list.

I'm happy as long as my games are performing well on my gfx card.

 

[humbug]

Don't think you are quite getting what I mean - neither Hitman or DX:MD run that great really the engine feels like it is lacking low level optimisation and/or wasn't really intended for the DX11 API - which may also ruin how it runs on DX12 or Vulkan due to the changes that would need to be made to support both DX11 and DX12 taking the assumption the problem is it was designed for a more DX12/Vulkan like environment.

Like Tomb Raider? a DX11 engine running in DX12 with DX11 feature levels.

I don't know the Hitman engine, but right now there are still some DX11 engines floating around patched for DX12, IE not actually designed for DX12, this includes for the moment Unreal Engine and Cryengine.

The result is they are actually faster in DX11 than they are in DX12 unless you pump a lot of drawcalls into the project, the reason being they have none of the DX12 shader advantages while the DX11 shader optimisations in the core of the engine have been butchered for DX12 compatibility.

All those worth their salt are working on full DX12 engines, some already have them, perhaps the Hitman engine is one of them, in that they will also not have the shader optimisations DX11 has because its a completely different shader tech, and with different feature levels, like A-synchronous shading, that requires on SKU hardware Nvidia don't have.

Its not that there is anything wrong with any of these engine, because they don't work as well on Nvidia as they do on AMD, its because Nvidia lack the support for them that AMD have.

 

[AthlonXP1800]

Get either 1070 or 1060. Nvidia is king in hardware streaming.

Streaming on Nvidia are far superior than AMD because Nvidia has much better hardware encode, software and driver for streaming.

Stay away from AMD because they still lacked hardware encode, software and driver for streaming. Without it saw AMD GPUs included Polaris still suffered from very high latency while Nvidia GPUs enjoyed very low latency when streaming games from Steam to other PCs or HDTVs or VR streaming software like TrinusVR and Riftcat to mobile phones mounted in VR headsets.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/353380/discussions/0/451852225141685452/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/353380/discussions/0/490124466456434691/?ctp=2

Same thing happened with Nvidia is king in VR gaming performance with superior hardware rendering, VRWorks software and driver while AMD suffered very poor VR gaming performance with hardware rendering, LiquidVR software and driver. HardOCP reviewed all VR games performance showed Fury X and RX 480 performed much worse than Maxwell and Pascal included GP106. GTX 1060 is better value for cheapest VR gaming and Titan X Pascal at the top of VR leaderboard as the fastest hardware in average render time, reprojection and dropped frames for best VR experience.

HardOCP reviewed latest VR game Onward Mil-Sim.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/09/07/amd_nvidia_gpu_vr_performance_onward_milsim/6#.V9lpU4WcGYk

 

[N19h7m4r3]

Get either 1070 or 1060. Nvidia is king in hardware streaming.

Streaming on Nvidia are far superior than AMD because Nvidia has much better hardware encode, software and driver for streaming.

That must be why even the RX 480 beats a GTX 1080 and Titan X in NLEs such as FCPX, Sony Vegas and Premiere Pro, or Davinci Resolve when encoding video.
Has to be that inferior encoding and decoding hardware.

The folks over at Blackmagic tested the 480 against the Titan X, and MSI Gaming G1 GTX 1060 ( an overclocked card ), and the 480 beat both in heavy work loads in DaVinci Resolve and decoding RED footage.
In the heavy workloads the GTX 1060 even failed sometimes due to low VRAM.

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=49713

I also did some tests with decoding RED footage, the files that come with Patrick's Resolve 11 training, and the 1060 is about 15% slower on RED decode than the RX480 in the same system, the 1060 is also slower with Neat Video, however the heavier tests we did with Neat Video failed on the 1060 as it ran out of RAM, it has 6GB vs the RX480s 8GB and the Titan X with 12GB.

The performance varies between 15% to 45% faster than the 1060, depending on the plugins, source files etc.

In short, the RX480 is faster with every test we throw at it in Resolve than last years Titan X, and much faster than the 1060. Looking at the specs for the new Titan X, it will be a bit quicker than the 480 in resolve, but a pair of 480 cards should be a lot faster than the new Titan X, at considerably less than half the price.

In Catia and Solidworks, the RX480 is running 50%+ faster than the GTX980, but on AutoCAD the 480 is about the same as the 970, so it varies from program to program.

Even Gregster on this forum was impressed when the 480 beat his GTX 1080 and Titan X in video encoding as well.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=29797929&postcount=668

Yer, you know it. I will give the 480 big kudos for the time it took to encode a couple of vids. Much quicker than any of my latest NVidia GPUs in Sony Vegas.

Mate, it chewed through encoding in no time. I am actually tempted to get a 4GB 480 just for that lol.

 

[humbug]

Encoding is much better on AMD, VR depends on the game engine, where liquid VR is used, like UE AMD is better, if its VR Works Nvidia is better.

 

[N19h7m4r3]

Encoding is much better on AMD, VR depends on the game engine, where liquid VR is used, like UE AMD is better, if its VR Works Nvidia is better.

Not only the game engine, but also a lot on the drivers. AMD need to step up their game there.

Although while AMD has latency issues in VR at the moment; let's not forget that until recently NVIDIA Pascal cards had severe DPC latency issues everywhere else.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1605618/ongoing-pascal-latency-problems-hotfix-doesnt-work-for-everyone

Also not only is AMD good for Encoding, but 3 RX 480s, beats even two Titan X Pascals.

That's ~$750 beating ~$2400. Bargain for video work if you ask me.

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=50957

3x RX 480

• Blur:
• 09 Nodes: 24fps
• 18 Nodes: 24fps
• 30 Nodes: 24fps
• 66 Nodes: 17fps
  
• TNR:
• 1: 24fps
• 2: 24fps
• 4: 24fps
• 6: 19fps

2x Titan X Pascal

• Blur:
• 09 Nodes: 24fps
• 18 Nodes: 24fps
• 30 Nodes: 24fps
• 66 Nodes: 17fps
  
  
• TNR:
• 1: 24fps
• 2: 24fps
• 4: 24fps
• 6: 17fps

 

[BlizzardX]

That must be why even the RX 480 beats a GTX 1080 and Titan X in NLEs such as FCPX, Sony Vegas and Premiere Pro, or Davinci Resolve when encoding video.
Has to be that inferior encoding and decoding hardware.

The folks over at Blackmagic tested the 480 against the Titan X, and MSI Gaming G1 GTX 1060 ( an overclocked card ), and the 480 beat both in heavy work loads in DaVinci Resolve and decoding RED footage.
In the heavy workloads the GTX 1060 even failed sometimes due to low VRAM.

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=49713



Even Gregster on this forum was impressed when the 480 beat his GTX 1080 and Titan X in video encoding as well.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=29797929&postcount=668

This has probably been the most interesting post, thank you. So realistically, how much of a difference would this make to steam streaming etc, I can't think it would do too much if at all to this nature of work?

 

[BlizzardX]

With respect to the Vulkan API, we see in the 'games' that have it how close the RX480 is to the 1070; is this likely to be a common theme due to the way that AMD have built the GPU? Could the 1070 pull further ahead as per DX11 if nVidia improve things in their drivers or is it simply a hardware difference and Pascal just won't be as good?

 

[BlizzardX]

Rightio, so I got a deal today on a 1070GTX for $640NZD which was only $170 more than the cheapest RX480 in NZ so I bought it, little bit more than I had intended originally but I feel the 1070 will last be a decent length of time.

Even if Pascal is not benefited by Vulkan or DX12, it is fast enough to easily see me through DX9, 10 & 11 plus 12/Vulkan so this will do me!

Thanks for the advice and thoughts people!

Chris

 

[h4rm0ny]

With respect to the Vulkan API, we see in the 'games' that have it how close the RX480 is to the 1070; is this likely to be a common theme due to the way that AMD have built the GPU? Could the 1070 pull further ahead as per DX11 if nVidia improve things in their drivers or is it simply a hardware difference and Pascal just won't be as good?

What's really happening is that for years Nvidia's cards have been fulfilling their potential more or less. They don't get a boost from Async because they have their own alternative way of scheduling that has worked alright for them. Conversely, AMD cards have not fulfilled their potential because they needed handling in a way that wasn't happening without DX12 or Vulkan. Now that DX12 and Vulkan are being adopted by game studios, it's like the weights have been removed from AMD and they're able to run unencumbered.

So that's a long way of saying that no, the 1070 is unlikely to pull further ahead with driver updates. In fact the gap is likely to narrow if anything because AMD never manage to get their act together for their own drivers on launch. They hit their true potential later. For example there was a noticeable boost in 480 benchmarks after their first driver update - shame they didn't manage to get that out in time for most site's reviews!

But don't read an excessive amount into that - 1070 is the more powerful card and don't expect them to become equals. But in the 1080p streaming to television scenario that is being discussed, it's wasted power I'll reiterate.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Rightio, so I got a deal today on a 1070GTX for $640NZD which was only $170 more than the cheapest RX480 in NZ so I bought it, little bit more than I had intended originally but I feel the 1070 will last be a decent length of time.

Even if Pascal is not benefited by Vulkan or DX12, it is fast enough to easily see me through DX9, 10 & 11 plus 12/Vulkan so this will do me!

Thanks for the advice and thoughts people!

Chris

Congrats. Happy gaming!

 

[BlizzardX]

What's really happening is that for years Nvidia's cards have been fulfilling their potential more or less. They don't get a boost from Async because they have their own alternative way of scheduling that has worked alright for them. Conversely, AMD cards have not fulfilled their potential because they needed handling in a way that wasn't happening without DX12 or Vulkan. Now that DX12 and Vulkan are being adopted by game studios, it's like the weights have been removed from AMD and they're able to run unencumbered.

So that's a long way of saying that no, the 1070 is unlikely to pull further ahead with driver updates. In fact the gap is likely to narrow if anything because AMD never manage to get their act together for their own drivers on launch. They hit their true potential later. For example there was a noticeable boost in 480 benchmarks after their first driver update - shame they didn't manage to get that out in time for most site's reviews!

Thanks, yes I really was considering the RX480 as it was a lot cheaper (until today!) and having had ATI cards for years I know they take a while to mature

For 1080p I agree it is overkill, but then I know that I should be able to get a decent amount of fidelity over the next few years without too much issue; well I hope unless we get massive visual increases!

But don't read an excessive amount into that - 1070 is the more powerful card and don't expect them to become equals. But in the 1080p streaming to television scenario that is being discussed, it's wasted power I'll reiterate.

Weird it just lost all my text.

Oh well, what I said was that at htat price I couldn't resist the 1070 and knowing that the RX480 should improve but I'm looking forwards for the next 3 to 4 years and looking for something that should last.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Weird it just lost all my text.

Oh well, what I said was that at htat price I couldn't resist the 1070 and knowing that the RX480 should improve but I'm looking forwards for the next 3 to 4 years and looking for something that should last.

Hey, you got a good card no doubt about it. I posted before I saw the one where you made your decision. Enjoy it. The only thing that would have been a mistake would be the 3GB version of the 1060.

I think you may regret being locked into GSync, but not the card itself. It'll more than meet your needs.

 

[BlizzardX]

By the time I can afford to build an extension to get my office back (and therefore a fixed monitor) I'll need a new card anyway!

 

[mahius]

I don't like any of those choices but if I had to choose, then it would be a 480. Due to a lot of DX12/Vulkan games in the future and the fac that a 4GB 480 is the closest thing to reasonable (pricewise) out of any of these cards.