Care for elderly 'increasingly rationed' in England

lude1962

lude1962

lude1962

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From the BBC

A small quote
'But the government said it was investing in the care system.

A £5bn pot of money has been set aside to encourage joint work between the NHS and care sector, with an additional £1.5bn being added to that by 2019, and councils have been allowed to increase council tax by 2% a year to invest in care services.'

But it looks like in 2015 we spent £12bn on foreign aid.

So the question for GD is, should charity begin at home?
 
This isn't a situation that can solely be solved by throwing cash around. Don't get me wrong, social care is dangerously underfunded but that's not the entire picture. There aren't enough beds available in care home because not enough new homes are being built, those that are being built charge prices way above what local authorities can afford. There are also too few carers, the job is hard, there's massive responsibility, the pay and terms are terrible but more importantly the profile of the sector is absolutely shocking so people avoid it.

There are things going on in the sector but honestly at this point it's all firefighting. The entire country is focused on the health crisis, they can't even see that we're already experiencing a social care crisis.
 
The family model that has existed since time began and still exists in many cultures in the rest of the world is being rejected by the West.

We are basically reliant on technology to try and fix these problems but I do worry with a rising population and a changing job market just how our infrastructure / society will possibly cope.

These are taboo topics that politicians don't like talking about in the open.
 
My Granma needs care, unfortunatly the family cannot afford it as the care home wants £5k per month... No idea how they can justify that tbh.
 
To a certain extent, yes, care should start at home in a perfect world.

However, who is going to look after them in the current and future generations? Couples who would have previously had the women stay at home as a "housewife", are now also out pursuing careers. Houses are far more expensive, and smaller - where are these elderly relatives to be housed?
 
It's a worry for me - I have two younger brothers both in high 60's -one is married with kids and other lives on a boat on his own and I am married with no kids - we have no other family -

Wife and I are just hoping we just drop dead as neither of us will be able to look after the other if it requires physical handling. - Costs of caring will soon drain any money we have.

This isn't what we expected when we were younger and paid into NHS for over 40 years -- Most people of today have no idea how this country has changed in 50 years..

We hope for best and a quick death. Morbid Yes - Logical Yes. :eek:

That's life today
 
Ah the problems of modern medicine. In the next 20 years unless we make some sort of medical breakthrough or start to take some serious action there will be a full blown crisis.

Medicine now has people living longer than ever and not necessarily in good health either. Existing on a cocktail of medicine and care is super expensive and we can't afford it. Smokers used to die young after contributing loads to the NHS, life expectancy was a lot less. Pension pots that were based on projections of living 10 years past retirement are now paying out crazy amounts to people who live until they are in their 90s.

There needs to be a solution proposed to this or it will collapse like the NHS will eventually. You can throw all the money you want at it but its a black hole. You need to have a plan. People want the best care and medicines and they don't care about the cost to the state. People who haven't worked a day in their lives expect the same level of care as those who have paid taxes all their life and they get it for the most part.
 
too many old people - pensions and care are impossible to pay for that many people, it just can't be done without a significant reduction in standards for everyone.
 
Wouldn't it be a better idea to have a NEST style system for elderly care so the next generation already have a pot to use to pay for their care?
 
A few good points raised, the common consensus being not enough money coming in to pay for the increased outgoings (increased longevity and subsequent care needs).

Pension age has been increased but that will only work up to a certain point (too many people not enough jobs).

Tough choices and radical solutions (care homes in cheap 3rd world countries?) will have to made in the future as obviously the current funding model is unsustainable.

This is a problem affecting most 1st world countries. Interestingly Germany is being mocked for its immigration policy, yet this influx of new young taxpayers will help to fund their older generation, albeit its only a short term measure until the immigrants start to reach old age.

Slightly off topic
As to care homes (the wife works at one) most of the staff are on minimum wage and come from the Indian subcontinent. Workers only get statutory sick and holidays, fine for a normal office job, but care home workers pick up more sickness and diarrhoea type bugs that means they can't work for 48hrs and dont get paid sick for it. Yet we never hear anything from the Labur Luvvies trying to improve there working conditions.
 
Tunney said:
Yes, let's raise taxes to pay for it. Don't you agree?
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Indirect taxes ie VAT yes

Ultimately raising PAYE only really hurts the average worker, low incomes pay less , the rich move with their money and the average worker pays the 'bills'.Despite what the left say the rich while having a lot, dont spend it all they tend to invest, thats why they still have money, unlike a poor paid worker who will more likely to spend their disposable income on chinese mobiles/games consoles fags booze and gambling.
 
I don't know how people think raising taxes will solve this issue. Its a bottomless pit. Put 20 billion into it and the standard of care will go up a little bit for a while but most of that money will simply go into the pockets of care home owners and fairly quickly we will be back to square one. There is simply no way that the current system is sustainable.

Raise the age of retirement to 75 and you will still have a lot of of people living 15 years or more beyond that age. Plenty of jobs are not the sort of thing you can do until that age as well.
 
lude1962 said:
Slightly off topic
As to care homes (the wife works at one) most of the staff are on minimum wage and come from the Indian subcontinent. Workers only get statutory sick and holidays, fine for a normal office job, but care home workers pick up more sickness and diarrhoea type bugs that means they can't work for 48hrs and dont get paid sick for it. Yet we never hear anything from the Labur Luvvies trying to improve there working conditions.
Click to expand...

You sure?

Guardian's care home workers section:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/care-workers

Try finding anything on the Telegraph's website supporting care workers - every article there is bemoaning the cost or quality of care.
 
lude1962 said:
Indirect taxes ie VAT yes

Ultimately raising PAYE only really hurts the average worker, low incomes pay less , the rich move with their money and the average worker pays the 'bills'.Despite what the left say the rich while having a lot, dont spend it all they tend to invest, thats why they still have money, unlike a poor paid worker who will more likely to spend their disposable income on chinese mobiles/games consoles fags booze and gambling.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear you're advocating a VAT increase over PAYE because it disproportionately impacts those on lower incomes, in terms of increase as a proportion of income?
 
The Running Man said:
Well when families basically refuse to lppk after their elderly properly and move all responsibility to the state what do you expect. 5* service?
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Every tried looking after someone with severe Dementia? You cannot expect the burden of care to always fall on families.

This is a modern phenomenon as we are living a lot longer now. It's pure finance and as people are now living longer it is going to costs a shed load more. When the NHS was created the average life expectancy was probably 65-70 and it is now 85+ and keeps raising.

The NHS with current funding levels cannot cope as medications and treatment for chronic illnesses are very expensive.

As a country we either need to make a choice. We either have to increase the funding by an huge amount (probably unrealistic) or rejig the system and go part-insurance. This would be unfortunate but people (many on this forum) will simply not accept the tax burden required.
 
My wife's grandma has dementia and requires specialist nursing due to outbursts of violence. We've not go the space to keep her and have two small children, so how is 'the family taking responsibility' supposed to work? Additionally, who is going to give up work to care for her 24/7? Where is the extra income going to come from to pay the bills?

Unfortunately society today requires both parents to work in order to afford a mortgage on a house big enough to raise a family, plus there is an expectation that both men and women should be able to have full careers. The upshot is that there is not enough family members to look after those who need caring for.

Ultimately, grandma's house is being sold to pay her nursing home fee's; which are bumped up to subsidise those who can't pay anything towards their care. Not a great situation but I can see the reasoning - the country can't afford to not squeeze those who have *something* to give.

'Paying into the system for 40 years' is no guarantee of anything decent nowadays, the time of getting everything for nothing is upon us, but it means that the quality for everybody is lowered.
 
MookJong said:
The family model that has existed since time began and still exists in many cultures in the rest of the world is being rejected by the West.
Click to expand...

I don't think its the west rejecting the family model. As time moves on the younger generation want freedom and independence. To start a family of their own and have the freedom to move away. Not looking after their parents in their own home until they die. People don't want to live like that anymore.

One problem is greed. The care system is just a business now. That's why you have private homes which are expensive. People at the top got in early and know everyone is going to get old at some point so they can make a tidy profit from it.
 
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