US University offers counselling to students after Sombreros worn at Tequila Party

If I dressed up as a cowboy or an Indian at a Western-themed night, then just bloody get on with the night and enjoy yourselves. Make love, not war(craft). PC just creates walls.

Generally I agree - the dreadlocks thing, the sombrero counselling... all silly. But the native american thing can be understood. They were pretty much exterminated by European settlers. It was near genocide. Modern European-descended americans dressing up in ceremonial native american costumes is a little like the Nazis had won WWII and then thought an Orthodox Rabbi outfit was a fun costume to go out drinking in.

I hope people are at least smart enough to understand the point of view of the scattered remnants of the native americans that seeing the peoples that massacred your ancestors, destroyed your culture and took your homeland from you dressing up as your dead leaders for a laugh can cause offense.
 
Generally I agree - the dreadlocks thing, the sombrero counselling... all silly. But the native american thing can be understood. They were pretty much exterminated by European settlers. It was near genocide. Modern European-descended americans dressing up in ceremonial native american costumes is a little like the Nazis had won WWII and then thought an Orthodox Rabbi outfit was a fun costume to go out drinking in.

I hope people are at least smart enough to understand the point of view of the scattered remnants of the native americans that seeing the peoples that massacred your ancestors, destroyed your culture and took your homeland from you dressing up as your dead leaders for a laugh can cause offense.

not really, no more so than dressing up as say Boudica or braveheart/William Wallace or a druid etc..etc..

I mean if it is clearly fancy dress then I don't see the issue. If someone was say trying to pass themselves off as native american when they're not then that is different.
 
The slogan is silly but i suppose it makes sense as a trans man will use the male bathrooms.

Probably easier to just put all the free feminine products in a locker somewhere discrete and let people get them themselves though as most put in the male bogs are just going to be used for drunken pranks

Talking of "feminine products" a local pub is now selling vibrators in the male toilets alongside the usual boner bags. I'm not sure if the clientele has changed or if it's a misjudgement! :D
 
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Same here. I have nothing against it and I am a firm believer that everyone should be able to whatever they like with their bodies, be it surgery, drugs or euthanasia. That doesn't stop me thinking there's something quite not right though.

I saw earlier in the news that the British Army now has their very first female in a combat role. I then read further and it turns out when the person joined the army, they were male and have now decided to take hormones. To me that just says we are still waiting for our first female in a combat role. I'm sorry, but they really are not the same.

A serious question:

How, exactly, do you define a person's sex and why do you use that definition?


As I see it, there are a few options:

1) Genetic. XX = male, XY = female. Well...no. That's not an accurate definition. For starters, it's not always true. Genes are plans for things, not the things themselves. It's possible for the end result to not match the plan in many ways, including sex. Genes aren't a sex and genes don't have a sex.

2) Physiological. Better, since it's actually about things and not just plans for things. Still far from easy to pin down though. You can't just use primary sexual organs because some people have those removed. Telling someone who's had their ovaries or testicles removed that they're now neuter is unnecessarily harsh and not really true. There are other sexual organs and sexual characteristics...but how many need to match to make a definition?

3) Psychological/Behavioural. A person's sex is defined by how they think and what they do. A bad definition unless you want extreme sexist stereotyping and roles.

4) Declaration. A person's sex is whatever they say it is, regardless of everything else. There's no objective reality. I am the walrus.

So I go with (2)...which means that if a person changes enough physically in the relevant ways, they change sex.



As an aside, there were women in combat roles on land in the British military in WW2. They were special forces soldiers so it could be said they weren't in the army as such (officially, they were nurses), but I think that's splitting hairs a bit. Officially, it was the usual top secret "we neither confirm nor deny that anyone was there or that anything happened" thing, but most of the details are declassified now. There was even a woman (Nancy Wake) in the British military in WW2 who in addition to being in a combat role was also a senior officer - she commanded a force of ~7000 soldiers. She earned so many medals she could have made body armour from them.
 
Personally, and I discovered this at a very early age, I don't believe there are two sexes as defined by religion, I believe there are 100s.
 
Personally, and I discovered this at a very early age, I don't believe there are two sexes as defined by religion, I believe there are 100s.

Well you sir are even madder than i gave credit.

Defined by religion ?

Defined by REALITY

There might be men wating to be women > Women wanting to be Men, Men wanting to be men, Men wanting to be women. Hurfdurf and TefaL BUT..

But there is only 2... I am a very tolerant person, Agnostic, but there is only 2 sexes and to say anythign else is franklly sillyness! :D
 
YOU define sex by X and Y chromsones then you add +emotional chemical nonsense ontop

So ill a male hetrosexual blah blah

or im a Female lesbian...

or im a Transexual man who wants to be a woman

all my own opinion of course.

You are born 1 or the other - you could change to one or the other through operations and chemicals.
 
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nah there are edge cases despite most people being either biologically male or femals

there are people with combinations of chromosomes other than XX or XY

there are people with XY chromosomes who haven't developed male genitalia and instead have vaginas albeit with internal testes instead of ovaries (and often large clits too) - this is suspected to be the issue with some of the 'female' 800m runners in the Olympics

however most people with gender issues are not biological abnormalities, they're mostly people people who are clearly either male or female and have a psychological issue with that
 
Genetic mutations ? Anomalies... Come on that doesn't make them a whole new sex that is bad science. it makes them 1 in a million. Like the 1 in a million ant that has an extra mandible or hair or something arbitrary
 
YOU define sex by X and Y chromsones then you add +emotional chemical nonsense ontop

So ill a male hetrosexual blah blah

or im a Female lesbian...

or im a Transexual man who wants to be a woman

all my own opinion of course.

You are born 1 or the other - you could change to one or the other through operations and chemicals.

I dont know why people include sexuality in gender/sex.

It seems bizzare to me.

I too think theres only men and women. I think our brains are complicated enough and the process of growing them messy enough mistakes csn happen.
I think thats why theres more mtf than ftm.

Men have all the genetic info for women/start out that way so there could be a mix up in develooment and the brain carries on down the female route.
 
Genetic mutations ? Anomalies... Come on that doesn't make them a whole new sex that is bad science. it makes them 1 in a million. Like the 1 in a million ant that has an extra mandible or hair or something arbitrary

How do you define the edge cases in terms of sex then? What do you classify someone whith a vagina and internal testes as? How about someone with a vagina and a penis?

fact is there are intersex people, they're in a small minority but they exist

an ant with an extra mandible is still an ant - what can you say about someone with both sexual organs in terms of whether they're male or female? The analogy doesn't work there
 
fact is there are intersex people, they're in a small minority but they exist

It's a genetic mutation and not what nature intended, in the classical sense in nature (and indeed in humans when we were cavemen) they would die off pretty quick and never reproduce as per Darwin evolution.

Harsh, and i feel sorry for someone born like that, but it's the truth.
 
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This has gone way past my level of interest.

I define them as a hermaphrodite. I though that was a clear term already established in science is it a 3rd gender? caused by a genetic abnormality or a mix.

How does the human brain when subjected to testosterone and estrogen equally develop? I have no idea.

I have nothing more to add - I see it you are either A or B or AandB

i should have said that to the first post. Good you brought it up.
 
A serious question:

How, exactly, do you define a person's sex and why do you use that definition?


As I see it, there are a few options:

1) Genetic. XX = male, XY = female. Well...no. That's not an accurate definition. For starters, it's not always true. Genes are plans for things, not the things themselves. It's possible for the end result to not match the plan in many ways, including sex. Genes aren't a sex and genes don't have a sex.

2) Physiological. Better, since it's actually about things and not just plans for things. Still far from easy to pin down though. You can't just use primary sexual organs because some people have those removed. Telling someone who's had their ovaries or testicles removed that they're now neuter is unnecessarily harsh and not really true. There are other sexual organs and sexual characteristics...but how many need to match to make a definition?

3) Psychological/Behavioural. A person's sex is defined by how they think and what they do. A bad definition unless you want extreme sexist stereotyping and roles.

4) Declaration. A person's sex is whatever they say it is, regardless of everything else. There's no objective reality. I am the walrus.

So I go with (2)...which means that if a person changes enough physically in the relevant ways, they change sex.

I go with 1, which in turn gives you 2 if all goes exactly how it should. As well as this, I'm of the belief that once you've been given something naturally, that is what you'll always be.

Men that have had their testes removed due to cancer are still men. Women that have had their ovaries removed are still women. A person that has decided to mutilate themselves and take hormones because they are unhappy with what they are is still whatever they were born to be.
 
Personally, and I discovered this at a very early age, I don't believe there are two sexes as defined by religion, I believe there are 100s.

Sexes aren't defined by religion and you can only get to 100s by defining sex very strangely indeed. You'd have to do things such as defining women with different sized breasts as being of different sexes or start defining sex by irrelevant things such as personality traits or something. Maybe shoe size.
 
I go with 1, which in turn gives you 2 if all goes exactly how it should.

That's not accurate, though. Take a look at epigenetics. It's particularly relevant in this case as genes do not determine sex. All humans start neuter and become neuter with the capacity to be either sex (i.e. all human foetuses have both Wolffian ducts and Mullerian ducts). It's hormones that trigger the sexing process, not genes.

Also, who would you define people who are female but have an XY sex chromosome pair? It happens - sex testing of athletes provides ongoing confirmation of it. In every such case, the woman in question had no idea. Do you know what sex gene type you have?

And how about people with neither XX nor XY? There are other possibilities.

As well as this, I'm of the belief that once you've been given something naturally, that is what you'll always be.

If you really believe that, you must think that everyone is either a newborn baby or a single-celled fertilised egg. You probably don't.
 
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