stolen valor

IronWarrior said:
Ah anyway, I find this whole stolen valor thing disturbing by the people who make a big deal out of it and chase people down. Just leave them alone, maybe a quite word if it happens in your face but nothing else.
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But it's OK to rip peoples' whole lives apart for telling a few little lies about more trivial matters on the internet?
 
ttaskmaster said:
"Under UK law the making, or attempting to make a financial gain by fraudulently wearing uniforms or medals, or by pretending to be or have been in the Armed Forces is already a criminal offence of fraud under the Fraud Act 2006, as is the pretence of being awarded an official medal. The offence carries a maximum penalty of 10 years’ imprisonment. It is also an offence under that Act (carrying up to five years’ imprisonment) for a person to possess or have under his control any article for use in the course of, or in connection with any fraud.

It is also an offence against The Uniforms Act 1894 for any person not serving in the Armed Forces to wear the uniform of any of the Armed Forces under such circumstances as to be likely to bring contempt upon that uniform"

Official MoD statement usually posted in response to various petitions of a Brit version of the Stolen Valour Act.
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Right, so not illegal as I stated unless additional acts take place, hence the reason why they are no longer prosecuted.
 
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ttaskmaster said:
Yes it IS illegal and people ARE still prosecuted... just not under the Armed Forces Act 2006.

Things like the Uniforms Act and Fraud Act do apply to civvies: http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/man-lied-military-service/story-25970457-detail/story.html
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Right, but that's fraud, as in he earned money from it:

commercial practice
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The original discussion was about civilians wearing medals they didn't earn, not making a business out of it which is a different matter.

Simply wearing medals you didn't earn is not a crime, see Roger Day.
 
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Longbow said:
The original discussion was about civilians wearing medals they didn't earn, not making a business out of it which is a different matter.
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Actually it was about anyone Walting, though specifically focussed on Americans.

Longbow said:
Simply wearing medals you didn't earn is not a crime, see Roger Day.
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Oh that guy - He did actually get arrested, charged and even plead guilty in court. He even got community service. However, the Army Act 1955 under which he was being prosecuted went defunct mere days before the event where he was photographed, so he escaped more serious prosecution.
TBH, the Uniforms Act would have done it...
 
ttaskmaster said:
TBH, the Uniforms Act would have done it...
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But he would have needed to bring contempt onto the uniform for that to apply. Parading, even in uniform that wasn't his, doesn't fit the criteria for contempt, he obviously had high regard for the uniform hence why he pretended it was his.
 
Longbow said:
But he would have needed to bring contempt onto the uniform for that to apply. Parading, even in uniform that wasn't his, doesn't fit the criteria for contempt, he obviously had high regard for the uniform hence why he pretended it was his.
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By falsifying his service and professing his decoration he is treating the uniform and the Act with contempt.
That and simply wearing it, or any such distinctive marks of it, is illegal under the law in the first place.

This Act may be cited for all purposes as the Uniforms Act 1894.

2 - Military uniforms not to be worn without authority.

(1)
It shall not be lawful for any person not serving in Her Majesty’s Military Forces to wear without Her Majesty’s permission the uniform of any of those forces, or any dress having the appearance or bearing any of the regimental or other distinctive marks of any such uniform: Provided that this enactment shall not prevent . . . any persons from wearing any uniform or dress in the course of a stage play performed in a place duly licensed or authorised for the public performance of stage plays, or in the course of a music hall or circus performance, or in the course of any bona fide military representation.

(2)
If any person contravenes this section he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

3 - Penalty for bringing contempt on uniform.

If any person not serving in Her Majesty’s Naval or Military Forces wears without Her Majesty’s permission the uniform of any of those forces, or any dress having the appearance or bearing any of the regimental or other distinctive marks of any such uniform, in such a manner or under such circumstances as to be likely to bring contempt upon that uniform, or employs any other person so to wear that uniform or dress, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month.

4 - In this Act—

“Her Majesty’s Military Forces”has the same meaning as in the Armed Forces Act 2006;
“Her Majesty's Naval Forces” does not include any Commonwealth force.
 
Hades said:
Wow I must have missed the part where we moved tens of thousands of people on mass by train, including children, stripped them naked and then gassed them. I never knew our history included that.
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Research the meadow camps from 1945, up to 3 million Germans may have died after the war was over.
 
thep02 said:
Research the meadow camps from 1945, up to 3 million Germans may have died after the war was over.
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You mean the camp run by the US and not us? And the camp where Eisenhower hid the fact he wasn't feeding the prisoners?
 
Question for serving forces members..

At what point do you end up walking around in uniform? I've always made the assumption that unless you were heading out/home, you'd be in plain clothes.

I just don't see people in uniform in the supermarket, or walking down the street like you see in the US clips on YouTube.
 
EVH said:
At what point do you end up walking around in uniform? I've always made the assumption that unless you were heading out/home, you'd be in plain clothes.
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Ex myself, but I can't imagine much has changed.
Mostly it depends on the BIKINI Alert State and whatever has been happening lately. There are times when you have to go into town or something in uniform, maybe because it's quicker. Some people do live off base as well. Oftentimes, we'd just run out of tea or wanted something that can't be had up the NAAFI shop on base.
At one stage we used to get issued civvy clothing, mainly a jacket and these awful green & white Hi-Tec trainers, which was somehow supposed to disguise the obvious green barrack trousers and OG shirt... Other times it was civvies all the way. Not even allowed to keep anthing in your car.

These days I do sometimes see bods in uniform in Morrisons, though.
 
EVH said:
Question for serving forces members..

At what point do you end up walking around in uniform? I've always made the assumption that unless you were heading out/home, you'd be in plain clothes.

I just don't see people in uniform in the supermarket, or walking down the street like you see in the US clips on YouTube.
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ttaskmaster said:
Ex myself, but I can't imagine much has changed.
Mostly it depends on the BIKINI Alert State and whatever has been happening lately. There are times when you have to go into town or something in uniform, maybe because it's quicker. Some people do live off base as well. Oftentimes, we'd just run out of tea or wanted something that can't be had up the NAAFI shop on base.
At one stage we used to get issued civvy clothing, mainly a jacket and these awful green & white Hi-Tec trainers, which was somehow supposed to disguise the obvious green barrack trousers and OG shirt... Other times it was civvies all the way. Not even allowed to keep anthing in your car.

These days I do sometimes see bods in uniform in Morrisons, though.
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Serving here, same as above really, usually just a case of convenience. I suppose it's the same as police or paramedics; it's my work clothes why would I want to sit at home reminding myself of work the next day?

Always fun spotting the new lads at train stations etc with unit hoodies and a black issue holdall.
 
Sherpa said:
Serving here, same as above really, usually just a case of convenience. I suppose it's the same as police or paramedics; it's my work clothes why would I want to sit at home reminding myself of work the next day?

Always fun spotting the new lads at train stations etc with unit hoodies and a black issue holdall.
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Not saying you want a reminder, or sit around the house with uniform on :p

My question was based on the US clips you tend to see where they're walking down the street carrying a rucksack (seemingly going home) or in a shopping mall just milling around. In the UK it's rare that I see any. I'd go so far as to say I haven't seen any unless I've been walking in the Brecon Beacons and some obvious military personnel are training.

FYI, the police aren't meant to be in uniform when they're off-duty, but I take your point. Thanks for the heads up, though :)
 
EVH said:
Not saying you want a reminder, or sit around the house with uniform on :p

My question was based on the US clips you tend to see where they're walking down the street carrying a rucksack (seemingly going home) or in a shopping mall just milling around. In the UK it's rare that I see any. I'd go so far as to say I haven't seen any unless I've been walking in the Brecon Beacons and some obvious military personnel are training.

FYI, the police aren't meant to be in uniform when they're off-duty, but I take your point. Thanks for the heads up, though :)
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I live near a couple of bases and rarely see anyone in uniform (doing every day tasks) - think in the last 10 years I've seen maybe 2 people out shopping in military uniform.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
How do you know they weren't fishermen?

Could well be likely the way fishing trends have gone!

:D
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I have a bit of an idea between "tacticool" and genuine military clothing ;)

EDIT: Obviously in terms of brands and stuff there is some overlap.
 
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ttaskmaster said:
By falsifying his service and professing his decoration he is treating the uniform and the Act with contempt.
That and simply wearing it, or any such distinctive marks of it, is illegal under the law in the first place.
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Nope, that would not fit the criteria of contempt. You can keep talking about that Act all you want, but the courts disagree.
 
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