• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

Concerned by Nvidia's current state of DX12 and Vulkan performance

opethdisciple

opethdisciple

opethdisciple

Soldato
Joined
18 May 2010
Posts
23,685
Location
London
I am genuinely concerned by Nvidia's current state of DX12 and Vulkan performance.

So far from my experiences and reports that I have read, DX12 seems to provide negative scaling compared to DX11 and Vulkan is pretty much the same. Or at best very random.

I have a GTX 970 for the record and would upgrade, I'm just concerned by Nvidia DX12 performance at the moment.

Personally I have a theory on this matter. Historically, AMD always seem to be ahead of the curve whilst Nvidia seem to only want to cater for the hear and now.

For example, AMD was first with 2GB of ram (before it was needed), DX10.1 (I think) and now they have better DX12 support and Async compute.

I think Nvidia operate like this as they presume that it's better to supply the market for what is most popular in the market now rather than provide support for future technologies. (Customers can buy new cards later!)

I reckon a proper DX12 card will start to come from Nvidia after this current series. I.e the 1100 series of cards.

Instead Nvidia approach at the moment to bridge the gap is brute force power to make up the fact they they are indeed weak in DX12.

This is why it doesn't rest easy for me to spend money on a 1070.

What are you thoughts?
 
Last edited:
I think you are right in your thinking. Wait for Vega to arrive and see how it performs. The gtx1070 is a fast card and is better in dx12 compared to Maxwell cards but i am not convinced it's a dx12 card like most of AMD's range. The gtx970 is still a pretty fast card so i see no harm in waiting.
 
My thoughts are similar. You only have to look at the digital foundry's comparison of Quantum Break in DX11 and DX12 on both Nvidia and AMD hardware to see that Nvidia currently have a problem with DX12.

*Although it is using a Maxwell card (970) so any improvements on Pascal aren't there to be seen.
 
IF AMD can make a 2.1ghz card would it be faster than nvidia's counterpart at the same clock speed in DX12 titles?

or i guess another way of asking is, who has the fastest architecture in DX12 clock for clock?

my next buy is a 1080 ti , however i will buy AMD if its faster for the same money.
 
Last edited:
Exactly why I'm waiting for Vega. To me Pascal is just a die shrunk Maxwell tweaked for extra speed to brute force DX12/Vulkan. My 7950 lasted a lot longer than I thought it would, granted it's not full DX12 support but at least the performance still improves over DX11.
 
I'm waiting as well. I think my 970 could be my last Nvidia card for a long while. After the 970 ram scandal (for which we got nothing in compensation in the EU), among other things. I've had enough of them.

Then there is their refusal to support adaptive sync (displayport 1.2a) and try to force everyone in to buying overpriced gsync monitors.
 
Last edited:
Being weaker doesn't mean they aren't as fast in DX12 as the considerably slower competition.

As you said, Nv have a habit of making you swap cards when they want you to.

You have two choices, stick to the 970 that plays fantastic on a suitable mix of med/high/ultra settings or jump on a 1070 that plays even better on high/ultra/max settings and forget about DX12 performance as they are few and far between and more or less just bolt ons right now.
 
Problem with saying wait for Nvidia's next GPUs where does that leave the already massive amount people using GPUs that are out dated? Does nvidia expect them to all upgrade?
You then look at AMD's line up and they have GPUs dating back to 2012 HD 7000 series doing well on these APIs.

AMD are definitely in a better position than nvidia for these new APIs.
 
shankly1985 said:
Problem with saying wait for Nvidia's next GPUs where does that leave the already massive amount people using GPUs that are out dated? Does nvidia expect them to all upgrade?
You then look at AMD's line up and they have GPUs dating back to 2012 HD 7000 series doing well on these APIs.

AMD are definitely in a better position than nvidia for these new APIs.
Click to expand...

Yea AMD definitely support their cards for far longer. In recent years nvidia cards seem to have taken a clear performance drop when the next generation gets released. Theres no way it's a coincidence :/
 
TBH I'm sitting on the fence before forming an opinion. We've not really yet seen well programmed, etc. DX12 or Vulkan titles, the Dawn engine for instance seems to be pretty naff really, and/or games that aren't hindered in their DX12/Vulkan implementation by legacy API support.

The one place where something really shines is Vulkan in Doom on AMD hardware but there seems to be a lot more attention paid to the AMD implementation there with quite a few bugs and issues with the Vulkan implementation on the nVidia side none the less many cards seem to have some low level V-Sync type problem so we aren't really seeing what nVidia can do there either.
 
geordiejc said:
IF AMD can make a 2.1ghz card would it be faster than nvidia's counterpart at the same clock speed in DX12 titles?

or i guess another way of asking is, who has the fastest architecture in DX12 clock for clock?

my next buy is a 1080 ti , however i will buy AMD if its faster for the same money.
Click to expand...

someone tested this, think it was AdoredTV but it was a very difficult test to do because of the way Nvidia boost.
 
Rroff said:
TBH I'm sitting on the fence before forming an opinion. We've not really yet seen well programmed, etc. DX12 or Vulkan titles, the Dawn engine for instance seems to be pretty naff really, and/or games that aren't hindered in their DX12/Vulkan implementation by legacy API support.

The one place where something really shines is Vulkan in Doom on AMD hardware but there seems to be a lot more attention paid to the AMD implementation there with quite a few bugs and issues with the Vulkan implementation on the nVidia side none the less many cards seem to have some low level V-Sync type problem so we aren't really seeing what nVidia can do there either.
Click to expand...

If Nvidia had the hardware I am sure they would have had the check book out by now to negate the negativity around there dx12 performance. Nvidia are not stupid and would be all over dx12 if there cards were up to the task. They rarely ever miss a trick.
 
There's always the question of how much is AMD pulling ahead with DX12 vs catching up with it.

We all know AMD's DX11 overhead is poor and they've struggled there, so by them showing so much improvement in DX12 could definitely be argued as them just 'releasing' their DX11 chains so to say.

Whilst AMD show a lot of improvement in DX12, personally I like to take the raw numbers in terms of pricing and fps. And right now Nvidia are leading the pack of two.

When Vega comes out we'll really see who's set up for the next few years. Interesting times upcoming.
 
I have these concerns too to the point I had a 1070 and sold it for a profit.

14492524_10210556014076883_4705802586978118108_n.jpg


Here's my current setup. I'm struggling to go back to my 1070. Any upgrade suggestions? I won't get a 1070 again unless it's sub £340 or should I wait for Vega or get something midgrade?

I admit I'm not impressed by the RX 480 barely pulling ahead of 970's in a lot of games.
 
 
I have a feeling that hardware async puts unusual strain on the gfx card and this is why Nvidia have ignored it and opted instead for a software emulation. AMD should pretty much have a 4 generation lead in this department, which is nice for them. This is just speculation, obviously.

Clock for clock AMD seem better, comparing the RX480 to a GTX 1060 pretty much proves this but you have to consider other factors like die size. I think the RX 480 is slightly larger, 220mm^^2 vs 200mm^^2 maybe, I looked a while ago as I was slightly interested in performance vs die size but I'd rather a review site do all the work but it's something I'd like to see compared over the last 5 years or so, 28nm being a good starting point.

Nvidia have a winning architecture for DX11 and I have heard that this entire gen is them just milking that with a process shrink with little development, probably while they work on the DX12 problems they face, to be implemented in later generations. Clearly, none of the DX12 cards yet produced by Nvidia will be great at DX12, they seemingly have done all they can with drivers and AMD will pull ahead here. It won't really matter too much to them, I imagine. Some bad feelings in the market that will be forgotten in a few generations. What will hurt them is AMDs dominance in the console market, this could potentially harm them much more than TWIMTBP harmed AMD, at the very least it should lighten AMDs driver development.
 
Doom112 said:
Lol in most DX12 games Nvidia is faster. AMD is only faster in Doom ,which is Vulkan and Hitman ,which no one even bother to play.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Gears.../Specials/DirectX-12-Benchmarks-Test-1208296/
https://www.computerbase.de/2016-09/forza-horizon-3-benchmark/2/
https://www.computerbase.de/2016-09/quantum-break-steam-benchmark/3/
http://gamegpu.com/racing-simulators-/-гонки/forza-horizon-3-test-gpu
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18750783
https://www.computerbase.de/2016-09/deus-ex-mankind-divided-dx12-benchmark/2/
http://techreport.com/review/30639/...x-12-performance-in-deus-ex-mankind-divided/3
Click to expand...

Doom you cannot truly compare currently how AMD vs Nvidia pans out in DX12 and Vulcan etc except for the 480 vs 1060.

Otherwise your are comparing 16nm Nvidia new gen cards against 28nm AMD last gen cards as last time I looked AMD has not produced a 16nm high end card yet?

Comparing a 1070, 1080 or TitanXP against a Fiji or respun Hawaii product is laughable at best and makes you look a bit sad grasping at straws.
 
SiDeards73 said:
Doom you cannot truly compare currently how AMD vs Nvidia pans out in DX12 and Vulcan etc except for the 480 vs 1060.

Otherwise your are comparing 16nm Nvidia new gen cards against 28nm AMD last gen cards as last time I looked AMD has not produced a 16nm high end card yet?

Comparing a 1070, 1080 or TitanXP against a Fiji or respun Hawaii product is laughable at best and makes you look a bit sad grasping at straws.
Click to expand...

I am not. I am comparing GTX 980 Ti with Fury X and both are on 28nm and RX 480 with GTX 1060.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom