42.3% of Londoners have less than £100 in savings

Lowrider is just not earning enough money to reach the tax paying threshold, which is legal and within the spirit of the rule.

I do understand what you are saying, that he is choosing to do this, but fine there is more to life than 'just working hard', it's not against the law to 'not work hard enough'.....well, not yet anyway, another couple of terms of Tories and it will be :p

The point is Lowrider will accept the lower financial quality of life, now and in the future, that someone who earns a lot will have. That's also his choice. Exisiting on state pension alone is not a great existence.

I think there is a vast difference between Mrs Miggins working on minimum wage on a Tescos checkout who is paying tax, which then society decides to take out of tax due to earning a low wage, to someone that makes a calculated action to earn below a certain amount so that they purposely dont contribute any taxes at all.

If you are able to contribute but choose not to, I would say that is actually against the spirit of society and social protection although it is legal.

As I said earlier his lifestyle choices are up to him, and if it makes him happy to have more time then more power to him. There are plenty of people that earn more but live unhappy lives and it goes to show that money isn't the main factor to happiness for everyone.

Where he crosses the line IMO, is where he expects to be looked after when he is older, when he will have spent his life avoiding any contribution. If he didn't expect to be looked after then there wouldn't be a problem.
 
What worries me is...

You could spend your whole life living very sensible, saving half your money and thoroughly analysing every purchase. Then your employment ends at a ripe old age and you've got this pot of cash you are using to supplement your reduced wage. At that point you aren't likely to become all flash with cash because being sensible is ingrained in you.

Chances are by that point you continue to save thinking about your children's future or some other mundane crap.

Then you die and someone else cashes in on your investments.
You have been trained all your life to save. You simply need to retrain to spend.

If you're lucky enough to have a reasonable pension and other savings having a good financial adviser, or passion to handle your own investments, truly helps in the initial years of retirement.

Our ethos is it's better to give money with a warm hand than a cold one. :p
 
As per the internet norm, this is a black vs white fallacy argument. The best option is somewhere in the middle between saving some for rainy days and the future, but also enjoying the now.
 
My contribution is low but I'm still a functional member of society, I'm still part of a whole that works, part of supporting a society isn't just about money alone, it's about money supporting an ideal, paving the way for a civilized society that is self sufficient and gives people a certain amount of freedom within the law to choose to live the life that they want, I'm not breaking society by my lifestyle choice, the less hours I do someone else does at work and supports a family.

If you work harder you pay into the system but you get rewarded for that, you have all the benefits that come with being wealthy, a lot of people value that and that isn't stopping any time soon, I certainly don't have a problem with rich(er) people, only those that keep moaning about the poor as if the only function they serve is to prop us up, if they are rich and living the life they want then they've made it, the system they have payed into has worked for them, but along the way a tiny proportion of your tax is also going towards supporting other peoples lifestyle choices, and I think that is fair as long as there isn't a tipping point and it causes society to break down.

Society as a whole is a complicated organism that has many elements, it all works together, poorer peoples disposable income for example is very important part of the organism, some elements are more important than others but they all serve as a whole, they should all be supported and respected. I myself value every class of people, I have great respect for those that work hard to get what they want, I have done my fair share of work when I was younger, I started work at 16 years old, for many years I worked two jobs full time burning the candle at both ends, I had a wake up call, I wasn't enjoying my life at all, I am a very hobby orientated person, my granddad always used to say "everyone needs a passion, find it, do it, money, no money, do what you love"

My problem I suppose if it is to be classed as one is that I do believe in Universal Pay, strongly, I certainly understand it's not something that can be implemented any time soon but I believe in the distant future it will be, and it will revolutionize society, it will give us a lot more flexibility and in my opinion will be much fairer, you will have a basic income that guarantees everyone a very minimal but safe standard of living, no more means tested benefits, no more fear, everyone in the future rich or poor should have this security as standard, I do not believe it will lead to a break down in society, most people want more than what a basic income would provide, if anything it would place more people in work and also allow more people to work less hours if they wanted to freeing up work for others, I believe in a society that has more people in work, but has more flexibility in the workplace.

Not sure how many of you are aware of Bronnie Ware, she was an Australian nurse that looked after people during the last 12 weeks of their life, She started recording their dying epiphanies in a blog that became so popular it lead her to writing a book, just for funsies here are the top two regrets of the dying that she recorded,

1. I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.

"This was the most common regret of all. When people realise that their life is almost over and look back clearly on it, it is easy to see how many dreams have gone unfulfilled. Most people had not honoured even a half of their dreams and had to die knowing that it was due to choices they had made, or not made. Health brings a freedom very few realise, until they no longer have it."

2. I wish I hadn't worked so hard.

"This came from every male patient that I nursed. They missed their children's youth and their partner's companionship. Women also spoke of this regret, but as most were from an older generation, many of the female patients had not been breadwinners. All of the men I nursed deeply regretted spending so much of their lives on the treadmill of a work existence."
 
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As per the internet norm, this is a black vs white fallacy argument. The best option is somewhere in the middle between saving some for rainy days and the future, but also enjoying the now.

HOW DARE YOU INJECT COMMON SENSE INTO THE EQUATION.

But yes, this is exactly what I do.

My contribution is low but I'm still a functional member of society, I'm still part of a whole that works, part of supporting a society isn't just about money alone, it's about money supporting an ideal, paving the way for a civilized society that is self sufficient and gives people a certain amount of freedom within the law to choose to live the life that they want, I'm not breaking society by my lifestyle choice, the less hours I do someone else does at work and supports a family.

Lets see if you're singing the same tune when you're 70 and struggling to pay your heating bills...
 
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As per the internet norm, this is a black vs white fallacy argument. The best option is somewhere in the middle between saving some for rainy days and the future, but also enjoying the now.
Lifestyle is king. Always.

However if you want a decent lifestyle in retirement something must give in the present so you can plan for the future.

In my book first things first is a home. Then pension at about 8-12% total contribution. Todays kids will have it easier as when they start work the default level of contribution will be 8% and they'll think nothing of it. Good old auto enrolment.
 
Just some further musings. One of my friends is a fairly big believer in spending money on things you LOVE doing. "When you are 60 are you going to look back and be pleased at that house you bought slightly sooner, or that concert / football match / holiday destination you got to see whilst you were young and without kids?". I agree with the sentiment - I suppose saving for the sake of saving is a bit of a waste.

The flipside to that is of course you could be sat there at 60 wishing you'd spent less money on music/sport/holidays and put a bit more aside to give your kids more chance of a good upbringing (I am not suggesting that money is the secret to a good upbringing, but it can be an enabler). Or that you had the money to take your kids to football or on a nice holiday etc. Having kids doesn't mean you have to stop doing things you love doing, for every door it closes it opens another one.

As regards "saving for the sake of saving", I just view it as facilitating future expenditure. Unless there is some sort of drastic event (apocalyse, hyper-inflation etc), money will always have a potential use and is extremely flexible in terms of what you can do with it (experiences, material things, private healthcare etc etc). Having
 
My contribution is low but I'm still a functional member of society, I'm still part of a whole that works, part of supporting a society isn't just about money alone, it's about money supporting an ideal, paving the way for a civilized society that is self sufficient and gives people a certain amount of freedom within the law to choose to live the life that they want, I'm not breaking society by my lifestyle choice, the less hours I do someone else does at work and supports a family.

If you work harder you pay into the system but you get a rewarded for that, you have all the benefits that come with being wealthy, a lot of people value that and that isn't stopping any time soon, I certainly don't have a problem with rich(er) people, only those that keep moaning about the poor as if the only function they serve is to prop us up, if they are rich and living the life they want then they've made it, the system they have payed into has worked for them, but along the way a tiny proportion of your tax is also going towards supporting other peoples lifestyle choices, and I think that is fair as long as there isn't a tipping point and it causes society to break down.

Society as a whole is a complicated organism that has many elements, it all works together, poorer peoples disposable income for example is very important part of the organism, some elements are more important than others but they all serve as a whole, they should all be supported and respected. I myself value every class of people, I have great respect for those that work hard to get what they want, I have done my fair share of work when I was younger, I started work at 16 years old, for many years I worked two jobs full time burning the candle at both ends, I had a wake up call, I wasn't enjoying my life at all, I am a very hobby orientated person, my granddad always used to say "everyone needs a passion, find it, do it, money, no money, do what you love"

My problem I suppose if it is to be classed as one is that I do believe in Universal Pay, strongly, I certainly understand it's not something that can be implemented any time soon but I believe in the distant future it will be, and it will revolutionize society, it will give us a lot more flexibility and in my opinion will be much fairer, you will have a basic income that guarantees everyone a very minimal but safe standard of living, no more means tested benefits, no more fear, everyone in the future rich or poor should have this security as standard, I do not believe it will lead to a break down in society, most people want more than what a basic income would provide, if anything it would place more people in work and also allow more people to work less hours if they wanted to freeing up work for others, I believe in a society that has more people in work, but has more flexibility in the workplace.

Not sure how many of you are aware of Bronnie Ware, she was an Australian nurse that looked after people during the last 12 weeks of their life, She started recording their dying epiphanies in a blog that became so popular it lead her to writing a book, just for funsies here are the top two regrets of the dying that she recorded,

1. I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.

"This was the most common regret of all. When people realise that their life is almost over and look back clearly on it, it is easy to see how many dreams have gone unfulfilled. Most people had not honoured even a half of their dreams and had to die knowing that it was due to choices they had made, or not made. Health brings a freedom very few realise, until they no longer have it."

2. I wish I hadn't worked so hard.

"This came from every male patient that I nursed. They missed their children's youth and their partner's companionship. Women also spoke of this regret, but as most were from an older generation, many of the female patients had not been breadwinners. All of the men I nursed deeply regretted spending so much of their lives on the treadmill of a work existence."

That was a very interesting and insightful post. There are no "upvotes" on this forum, so I just wanted to say that.
 
Can someone explain to me the word retire, because how the hell on earth could you just sit back so to say? "Am waiting to die" :confused:

Unless you grind yourself into the ground, or become ill.

What is retirement? Giving up on life, waiting for Mr Grim....:confused:

I don't get this **** at all. :mad:

[Early] (if all goes to plan) Retirement for me will be cutting my working hours to two days a week maximum (I too don't think I could ever not work), with more travelling, more time spent with the wife, maybe grandchildren by then, and basically being able to do whatever I want without worrying about financial problems.

My in laws for example won't have been home in 2016 at all. They've been to (off the top of my head) America, New Zealand, Australia, Fiji, Canada, Alaska, Morocco, Scandinavia, and are going back to Morroco, then visiting us for Christmas.

Basically:
  • no mortgage
  • house deposit help for kid(s) if needed
  • help with tuition fees if needed
  • enough to go off to anywhere in the world at a drop of a hat
  • an income that allows me to indulge in my expensive cycling hobby (although by then my knees might be totally ******

I'd also like to do a history degree; because I love history.

Not very ambitious I know.
 
I only save about £100 pcm because I'm still paying back a credit card (£50 pcm) which I had to use to bail out my girlfriend from something a couple years ago, and I have a car loan which costs me £150 pcm (though thankfully I'm in my final year of 5 for that). I could probably pay off the credit card quite quickly, but I prefer living in the now and it not affecting me too much day-to-day.

I sell stuff on eBay for holidays.

Also if I didn't go out as much as I do, I'd easily be able to save another £150, but I enjoy going to bars and restaurants in London so don't really care.
 
Nice, living in the south east is good them :)

It has shocked me that people have so little in savings!
 
[Early] (if all goes to plan) Retirement for me will be cutting my working hours to two days a week maximum (I too don't think I could ever not work), with more travelling, more time spent with the wife, maybe grandchildren by then, and basically being able to do whatever I want without worrying about financial problems.

My in laws for example won't have been home in 2016 at all. They've been to (off the top of my head) America, New Zealand, Australia, Fiji, Canada, Alaska, Morocco, Scandinavia, and are going back to Morroco, then visiting us for Christmas.

Basically:
  • no mortgage
  • house deposit help for kid(s) if needed
  • help with tuition fees if needed
  • enough to go off to anywhere in the world at a drop of a hat
  • an income that allows me to indulge in my expensive cycling hobby (although by then my knees might be totally ******

I'd also like to do a history degree; because I love history.

Not very ambitious I know.

Sounds great! :)
 
We seem to have a mix of people thinking that what works for them, be it saving, not saving, restrained lifestyle, unrestrained lifestyle, retirement, not wanting to retire is what everyone should aspire to without appreciating that circumstances will be different, as will earnings across the forum. Outside of some simple logical arguments about the value of having something put away or some insurances in place just in case, the rest is just opinion on how one should live their life, so pretty valueless for those who have a different outlook. The argument that 'I can't afford to' is also massively subjective and really comes down to priorities more than circumstance in the main. I've heard it often but what it actually means is I can't or won't go without certain things, so therefore it makes it hard for me to save. I am making no judgement on that point, just that it's more often the case.

Life isn't black and white.
 
We seem to have a mix of people thinking that what works for them, be it saving, not saving, restrained lifestyle, unrestrained lifestyle, retirement, not wanting to retire is what everyone should aspire to without appreciating that circumstances will be different, as will earnings across the forum. Outside of some simple logical arguments about the value of having something put away or some insurances in place just in case, the rest is just opinion on how one should live their life, so pretty valueless for those who have a different outlook. The argument that 'I can't afford to' is also massively subjective and really comes down to priorities more than circumstance in the main. I've heard it often but what it actually means is I can't or won't go without certain things, so therefore it makes it hard for me to save. I am making no judgement on that point, just that it's more often the case.

Life isn't black and white.

The people of OcUK expecting everyone else to share the same view as them and believing anyone who doesn't to be wrong isn't exactly a new trait though :p
 
That doesn't surprise me at all. Even in the banking sphere you'd be surprised how few people are saving any of their income - most I know rely on their year end bonuses but save almost nothing at all during the year.

To be honest, I'm not so concerned with people who don't save as much as I'm concerned with people who are living outside of their means and actually going into debt to fund their lifestyles of which London is full to the brim. That's the real danger here and to the economy because over time the economic output of the individual becomes less about paying down debt and more about servicing the debt instead (i.e. taking just enough debt that your salary covers that month's payments - lose your job and the debt defaults. Extrapolate to the wider economy and you have major structural problems)
 
That doesn't surprise me at all. Even in the banking sphere you'd be surprised how few people are saving any of their income - most I know rely on their year end bonuses but save almost nothing at all during the year.

To be honest, I'm not so concerned with people who don't save as much as I'm concerned with people who are living outside of their means and actually going into debt to fund their lifestyles of which London is full to the brim. That's the real danger here and to the economy because over time the economic output of the individual becomes less about paying down debt and more about servicing the debt instead (i.e. taking just enough debt that your salary covers that month's payments - lose your job and the debt defaults. Extrapolate to the wider economy and you have major structural problems)

Very good point. I guess if people do not want to save but live within their means that is one thing, but those who don't save and yet live their life on credit and in debt are basically a ticking timebomb.
 
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