Advice on consumer rights and email to garage...

craig_t

craig_t

craig_t

Associate
Joined
18 Mar 2015
Posts
1,101
Evening, I am after some advice.. On 2nd October my partner bought a car at a garage in Bradford, we are located in Newcastle. We drove the 80 mile trip and looked at the car and decided to take it and finished the sale at just before 4pm on a Sunday when they close.

Driving home my partner found that the steering wheel controls for the volume were not working correctly, they don't put the volume up and down, it only mutes it (even the + button mutes it). A day or so later she told me she thinks it is misfiring but took me out to show me and it didn't do it. Then she said she thought it happened again, so I took it out and it wasn't doing it. It's got a little more often now so rather than intermittent it seems more permanent (on acceleration only). They gave a warranty with the car through warrantywise, but it is bronze so offers next to no cover (This covers engine moving parts, gearbox, drivetrain and clutch) neither of which can be associated with a misfire so I am confident that warranty will not cover the resolution of this issue.

As per the instructions though I called the warranty company and asked what to do, they said take it to a VAT registered garage and get it diagnosed then have the garage call them. If they cover it, they pay for fix and diagnostics, if they don't then I pay the diagnostics and have to fix it. I don't believe I should be in this position due to the consumer rights so called the garage and asked politely what his thoughts are (never mentioned rights etc) and he just kept saying 'if the warranty don't fix it then it's not warranted'. So I have wrote the below, is this suitable to send? I've took out the garage name, car reg etc.

Hello,
I purchased a car from <Garage Name> on 02/10/2016, Car Registration <123456> for £0000. We test drove the car and it appeared to drive with no issues so a sale was agreed. On the journey home, while trying to adjust the volume of the radio using the steering wheel we found that the buttons to control this were not working correctly. As the garage is 80 miles away from us and the sale was completed at 4pm when you were closing we were unable to return to the garage for assistance. Although we test drove the car, it is not reasonable to expect us to set up and test every single feature prior to sale.

A further issue developed which was an intermittent misfire on acceleration which was not apparent on the test drive due to being intermittent, alongside this the car from cold sometimes struggles to start. We did see this lazy start at the garage, but the salesman advised the car might struggle to start as it has been sitting there a couple of weeks. The car was purchased with 93071 miles and has now got 93430 miles at the time if writing this email (11/10/16). As the problem was intermittent we were unable to correctly understand what was happening to take it to a garage and there were no lights on the dash board which would have suggested a fault. However the problem has now became more apparent and although still not showing an engine management light it is now clear that it is a misfire and a cold start issue as it is fine when warm. We have contacted the warranty company as per instructions, who advise the process is to take the car to a garage and have it diagnosed. If the issue is covered under warranty then they will cover the repair cost and diagnosis cost however the warranty cover we have been given is bronze. This covers engine moving parts, gearbox, drivetrain and clutch, neither of which can be associated with a misfire so I am confident that warranty will not cover the resolution of this issue.

I called to ask for some advice on how to proceed, after explaining the above to you and was given the response of ‘if they don’t fix it then it’s not warranted’. I mentioned that because I don’t believe it is going to be covered under the very basic warranty offered, what would you advise to do as you would need to make an attempt to repair the car. This is a little more difficult as we are not local, if we were local I would expect for you to book us into your mechanic to investigate but as we are a long distance I was unsure if you would prefer to cover the costs locally, or recover the car and use your own mechanic. Again I was just told if the warranty don’t cover it we don’t care and it is my problem. I tried to explain that under the consumer rights act documented here: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/content...ing-car-buyers-come-into-force-on-october-1st on the website where the car was advertised and here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted on the government site that this gives us an entitlement to a repair, replacement or reject the car. But again was told ‘you must follow the warranty instructions’ which I am absolutely happy to do, however if it is not covered under warranty then I will be out of pocket with a diagnostics fee. The other issue is with the steering wheel controls. Please can you advise on how you wish to proceed, either cover the cost for me to have the issues resolved locally or arrange collection of the car, with a curtsey car to allow us to drive while the car is away as it will be an extended duration since your mechanic is located 80 miles from us. At this moment, we are only looking to have the car repaired and not currently rejecting the contract as per our rights in section 19, part 3 on the legislation.gov.uk link above.

I look forward to hearing from you,

Kind Regards
Craig
 
You need to rewrite it.

Can't follow bits.

Questions without ?.

Statements with no info

Just inform them you wish to reject it under your rights as a consumer. They are well within their rights to then offer a repair local to them not you.
 
It's been a while since I looked at this so it seems to have changed slightly, but basically:


If you bought from a dealer and a fault occurs which means that the car car is not of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose or as described, then depending on the time since you bought it, you have slightly different rights.

<30 days - entitled to reject / get a refund
<6 months - entitled to repair or replace, and then refund if repair is unsuccessful. Garage is responsible for proving that fault didn't exist at time of sale.
>6 months - onus is on buyer to show fault existed at time of sale

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/content...ing-car-buyers-come-into-force-on-october-1st

Having been in a similar position I would say that it's very unlikely the garage will honour this without being deliberately awkward. Such as stating that is not covered by warranty, which is irrelevant. Or that they've got evidence of all the tests they ran before it was sold to show that it was OK, which is also irrelevant unless they can show that those tests would have caught the fault, which for an intermittent problem they can't.

I'd advise reading up on the above on multiple sites and familiarise yourself with the formal process you should be going through. Don't expect it to be easy though, I had to threaten small claims action and ended up with a resolution by good fortune through another garage before it got that far.
 
You don't have to follow any 'warranty instructions' and regardless of whatever they are they do not contravene or supersede UK consumer law. As stated above as you are within 30 days of purchase you can absolutely reject it which is what I would do in this case.
 
div0 said:
It's been a while since I looked at this so it seems to have changed slightly, but basically:


If you bought from a dealer and a fault occurs which means that the car car is not of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose or as described, then depending on the time since you bought it, you have slightly different rights.

<30 days - entitled to reject / get a refund
<6 months - entitled to repair or replace, and then refund if repair is unsuccessful. Garage is responsible for proving that fault didn't exist at time of sale.
>6 months - onus is on buyer to show fault existed at time of sale

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/content...ing-car-buyers-come-into-force-on-october-1st

Having been in a similar position I would say that it's very unlikely the garage will honour this without being deliberately awkward. Such as stating that is not covered by warranty, which is irrelevant. Or that they've got evidence of all the tests they ran before it was sold to show that it was OK, which is also irrelevant unless they can show that those tests would have caught the fault, which for an intermittent problem they can't.

I'd advise reading up on the above on multiple sites and familiarise yourself with the formal process you should be going through. Don't expect it to be easy though, I had to threaten small claims action and ended up with a resolution by good fortune through another garage before it got that far.
Click to expand...

Quoted because this is solid advice. I too recently had car issues after buying it and researched this also.
 
Diagro said:
You need to rewrite it.

Can't follow bits.

Questions without ?.

Statements with no info

Just inform them you wish to reject it under your rights as a consumer. They are well within their rights to then offer a repair local to them not you.
Click to expand...

Writing isn't my strong point hence the ask for help...

Armageus said:
Instead of going in hard and quoting consumer rights, just try to speak to the dealer politely but firmly.

Any 3rd party warranty offered should be in addition to the dealers obligation to refund completely (30 days), or offer repair (typically 6 months).

more here:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
Click to expand...

I did speak to the garage politely, not mentioning consumer rights etc until the guy was being awkward and unhelpful/not interested.

div0 said:
It's been a while since I looked at this so it seems to have changed slightly, but basically:


If you bought from a dealer and a fault occurs which means that the car car is not of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose or as described, then depending on the time since you bought it, you have slightly different rights.

<30 days - entitled to reject / get a refund
<6 months - entitled to repair or replace, and then refund if repair is unsuccessful. Garage is responsible for proving that fault didn't exist at time of sale.
>6 months - onus is on buyer to show fault existed at time of sale

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/content...ing-car-buyers-come-into-force-on-october-1st

Having been in a similar position I would say that it's very unlikely the garage will honour this without being deliberately awkward. Such as stating that is not covered by warranty, which is irrelevant. Or that they've got evidence of all the tests they ran before it was sold to show that it was OK, which is also irrelevant unless they can show that those tests would have caught the fault, which for an intermittent problem they can't.

I'd advise reading up on the above on multiple sites and familiarise yourself with the formal process you should be going through. Don't expect it to be easy though, I had to threaten small claims action and ended up with a resolution by good fortune through another garage before it got that far.
Click to expand...

I read the legislation site already, I believe it doesn't meet:
9.Goods to be of satisfactory quality
10.Goods to be fit for particular purpose

Which entitles me to:
Section 19:
(3)If the goods do not conform to the contract because of a breach of any of the terms described in sections 9, 10, 11, 13 and 14, or if they do not conform to the contract under section 16, the consumer’s rights (and the provisions about them and when they are available) are—

(a)the short-term right to reject (sections 20 and 22);

(b)the right to repair or replacement (section 23); and

(c)the right to a price reduction or the final right to reject (sections 20 and 24).

I just need some help in wording the email to the garage as they are unhelpful and very very unprofessional to be honest, even when I was there they were far from professional.
 
Hello,
I purchased a car from yourselves <Garage Name> on 02/10/2016, Car Registration <123456> for £0000.
We test drove the car, and it appeared to drive with no obvious issues, so a sale was agreed.
On the journey home, while trying to adjust the volume of the radio using the steering wheel we found that the buttons to control this were not working correctly. As the garage is 80 miles away from us and the sale was completed at 4pm when you were closing we were unable to return to the garage for assistance.
A further issue developed which was an intermittent misfire on acceleration which was not apparent on the test drive due to being intermittent, alongside this the car from cold sometimes struggles to start. We did see this lazy start at the garage, but the salesman advised the car might struggle to start as it has been sitting there a couple of weeks.
The car was purchased with 93071 miles and has now got 93430 miles at the time if writing this email (11/10/16). As the problem was intermittent we were unable to correctly understand what was happening to take it to a garage and there were no lights on the dash board which would have suggested a fault.
However the problem has now became more apparent and although still not showing an engine management light it is now clear that it is a misfire and a cold start issue as it is fine when warm.

Please advise as to how you wish to proceed in order to rectify these issues ?

I look forward to hearing from you,

Kind Regards
Craig
Click to expand...

Leave the legal stuff for a follow up letter if they don't play ball
 
Car dealers offer these 90 day warranties because they get them for nothing. They're loss-leaders from the warranty companies and they actually try and persuade the garages to offer them.

Car will be sold as seen however there is a duty to notify you of any issues.. Not sure how far you'd get with that one though.

Regarding "fit for purpose", don't go down that path. It is a motor vehicle and it generally is operating as a motor vehicle, therefore it is fit for purpose. Steering wheel controls broken doesn't mean it's not fit for purpose. This is often misused and would likely get you nowhere in court if it is your defence.


Personally before hammering away at the keyboard in the general direction of a used car salesman, I would give them another call and approach it in a more light-hearted way before you **** them off. They're not new to this game and will no doubt know exactly how to deal with it if you start getting shirty and threatening them. Just call them up, ask them to do you a favour and take a look at it, and go from there.
 
ov_sjo said:
Car dealers offer these 90 day warranties because they get them for nothing. They're loss-leaders from the warranty companies and they actually try and persuade the garages to offer them.

Car will be sold as seen however there is a duty to notify you of any issues.. Not sure how far you'd get with that one though.

Regarding "fit for purpose", don't go down that path. It is a motor vehicle and it generally is operating as a motor vehicle, therefore it is fit for purpose. Steering wheel controls broken doesn't mean it's not fit for purpose. This is often misused and would likely get you nowhere in court if it is your defence.


Personally before hammering away at the keyboard in the general direction of a used car salesman, I would give them another call and approach it in a more light-hearted way before you **** them off. They're not new to this game and will no doubt know exactly how to deal with it if you start getting shirty and threatening them. Just call them up, ask them to do you a favour and take a look at it, and go from there.
Click to expand...

But the misfire means that it is not fit for purpose... As it doesn't work properly.

I tried being nice and friendly approach, but the garage is unprofessional and have no interest in helping. I will call and ask to talk to the manager instead, maybe they will have better people skills.
 
ov_sjo said:
Car will be sold as seen however there is a duty to notify you of any issues.. Not sure how far you'd get with that one though.
Click to expand...

100% incorrect, when bought from a garage there a many rights that cover you, speak with Trading Standards if they aren't playing ball, you'll get a reference number of them and quote it on the letters to the garage.

Even if you buy privately there is no 'sold as seen' as the advert has to be a true representation of the car, that's why 'spares or repair' is quoted in private ads because it doesn't make the insinuation that the car is fault free.
 
Ok so not sure what to say now, I sent them Brizzles version and the replies went like this:

Good Morning

Thank you for your email.

When looking into the matter I can see that you were provided 3 months standard warranty with the vehicle. As advised on point of sale please contact your warranty company on the number provided to you.

Thank you
Click to expand...

Good Morning,


Thank you for your prompt reply. I have reviewed the warranty information provided and the level of cover is Bronze. Unfortunately this does not cover any audio equipment, so would not be able to help in relation to the steering wheel controls. Additionally, it only covers the following:

Engine (all internal moving parts)
Gearbox and Transmission
Drive Train
Differential

As neither of the above 4 items would cause the symptoms of a misfire, I don't believe the warranty company would cover these. I called the warranty company and they advised to take it to a VAT registered garage and get them to diagnose the problems then call the warranty company. However, if I do this and the warranty doesn't cover it then I will be stuck with a diagnostic bill.

On this basis, could you advise how I should proceed please?

Thanks
Craig
Click to expand...

WITHOUT PREDUDICE

Good afternoon Craig,

After looking into the matter of the audio equipment I do not believe that this would be covered in any instance.

The misfire may be covered dependant on the cause. Ultimately I feel that the car needs diagnosing for you to proceed. Unfortunately this may be at a cost to yourself.

At the point of sale the warranty terms where explained in full and the sale then proceeded, Therefore I would advise you that this is the route that you need follow at this stage.

Many Thanks,
Click to expand...

What do people recommend now? I should not have to pay any costs here, surely?
 
craig_t said:
What do people recommend now? I should not have to pay any costs here, surely?
Click to expand...

No you shouldn't have to pay any costs.

The audio controls are a minor issue but would expect any half decent dealer to fix out of good will anyway (or for minor cost).

Your approach should now be to the dealer, that regardless of what is covered by warranty, the onus is on him to diagnose and fix the fault, otherwise you are within your rights to reject the car for a full refund. Assuming the warranty does cover the fix, then that is a reasonably acceptable outcome (although could argue that you shouldn't be having to rely on "your" warranty e.g. if there is a limited number of claims or a limited total payout).

Personally I would return the car to the dealer and ask him to get the fault diagnosed, and report back to you.

Make sure that everything is done well within the 30 day period, so that if things aren't resolved acceptably, that you still are able to make him aware of the intention to reject.

Document everything that has happened, just in case it does end up needing to be escalated further.
 
Swifty55 said:
Contact the dealer...
Click to expand...

He has...

It seems like the dealer has the misguided idea that by giving you a warranty they can magically wash their hands of any issues that arise.

I think it may be time to start slipping the odd reference to the parts of law already mentioned in this thread in to make it clear to them it's still very much their issue.
 
My issue with taking it back to him is they are 80 mile away, so I would have to drive two cars down and back (twice) as I would need to leave the car with them putting the miles up on my car and my partners, plus the 2 hours there and 2 hours back each time plus the fuel.

I have drafted up this email, is it suitable?

Afternoon,
Please see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted which documents my rights as a buyer. The car falls under section 9 (Goods to be of satisfactory quality) and section 10 (Goods to be fit for a particular purpose). This then under section 23 gives me a right to repair or replacement, or under section 20 the right to reject within 30 days. At this moment in time I do not wish to reject the car, just give you the trader the opportunity to repair or cover the costs of repair.
I am happy to book the car into a garage for diagnostics, however can you please advise on how you will proceed if the warranty company will not cover the issues with the car as there should be no additional costs to myself, which include diagnostic fees.
Additional to this, I do not believe that I should have to use my warranty to resolve these issues as they are pre existing. Using my warranty to resolve these issues would go towards the maximum repair limits which I am allowed, I expect this warranty to be used for new problems which may occur down the line, not pre existing.
Thanks
Craig
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
not how I would word the response personally. My response would be along the lines of

Dear Dealer

Thank you for clarifying the terms of the warranty, however I do not wish to claim on the warranty. As per the Consumer Rights Act 2015 I believe that the vehicle is not of sufficient quality and not fit for purpose as defined in sections 9 and 10 of the legislation

As less than 30 days has elapsed since I purchased the vehicle, I am formally notifying you that I wish to reject the vehicle as per my rights under section 20 of that legislation. Please can you contact me to arrange the return of the vehicle.
Click to expand...

don't go into you being happy to book the vehicle into diagnostics, don't offer to let them detail what they will do if the warranty doesn't cover it. Go in and go in hard

Personally speaking, I don't see any way that dealer is going to magically agree to fix all the issues on that car without you at least having to go into all the hassle of driving the car back to him. Especially not properly. You agree to let him fix it, there is nothing you can legally do to prevent him from taking the car back, and continually bodging it avoiding spending any real money, dragging the process out more and more in the hope you give up. You can't insist it be taken to a 3rd party garage near you and him pick up the bill. You leave the door open for him to repair and you legally can't refuse him the opportunity to demand the vehicle be brought back and he repair it for you.

He's made it obvious he's not going to play ball. Ask for the refund and get it done. The hassle you'll have of returning the vehicle and getting a new one will be nothing compared to the hassle he will put you through while he attempts to meet his legal demands to repair the vehicle while spending as little money as possible. He will refuse the above, get a letter sent recorded delivery to him within the 30 days, Get it sent today, next step after he continues to pretend there's nothing he can do is small claims court.

He'll back out at the last minute if you can prove you sent your rejection within 30 days. He simply can't win.
 
Last edited:
You mentioned the steering wheel controls being faulty - is it a Vauxhall?

You have to give the seller one opportunity to fix the issues. If they don't, you can return the car within 6 months of purchase.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom