UK Government Admits to Spying on Citizens, Finally Makes It Legal

Troll 1984-sympathiser is troll. Trollolololol.

It's bleeding obvious that the gov'ts have been spying on us for as long as technology has been around.

Plus, the plural for thousand is thousands, not thousand's.

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I think it's great news that this is now finally made Legal. If you are not doing anything shady, you got nothing to hide.

This program has and will continue to save thousand's of lives from terrorists attacks. I hope soon the day comes when everyone will be mandated to provide their fingerprints and DNA to the government. This will make it next to impossible to step out of bounds of law and remain unpunished.

Legalization of collecting data is definitely a step in the right direction to a much more safer society.

Can only assume sarcasm.

If not, you're a brainwashed scared little rabbit...
 
Can only assume sarcasm.

If not, you're a brainwashed scared little rabbit...

So, based on your comment. It is perfectly reasonable that an American who is pro guns would call European citizens who are mostly against guns... Sarcastic in believing that guns reduce murder rate and if they are not, then they are bunch of brainwashed by government, scared little rabbits who gave up their rights and freedoms?

Given that you're an individual who is against guns, since you believe that it makes society safer... Do you consider yourself a scared, brainwashed little rabbit?
 
Thing is, majority of crimes and even terrorists plots are not done by Harvard graduates knowing ins and outs. Its actually extremely easy to spot them since they have little knowledge on how to not be found. Taliban fighters still communicate over cell-phone's that take so little to be intercepted.

Murders, lets take the USA for example since its not as prevalent in Europe. Are not majorly commited by hitmen with barcode on their shaved heads. They are commited by people who are not exactly bright and therefore even if they tried, getting away with it while their DNA + Fingerprints are in database would not happen. Most importantly the criminal will know that and it will deter it from happening.

A Teen has a hissy fit in USA, can easily find a gun and no one would blink an eye because its so easy. He tries to do same in UK, he'd be lucky enough to find a gun and even he did, he'd have his butt whooped before he even picked it up.

You say that but ISIS have set up websites with instructions for evading these blanket collection tactics. They even offer software to do it for download. If data collection actually worked well then these people who committed the France atrocities would have been picked up before they did it.

Murderers you are correct not always the brightest person but you don't have to be bright to avoid leaving DNA/Fingerprints. Someone of average intelligence can work out that wearing gloves prevent leaving fingerprints. DNA isn't just falling off us constantly. Wearing gloves and not leaving any bodily fluids at the crime scene isn't exactly rocket science and would certainly make a huge database worthless. If the victim scratches you then ok a database would be worthwhile.

I can't actually find stats but I believe a fairly low amount of crimes are actually prosecuted based on fingerprints/DNA as there tends to be a much more obvious/cheaper link to make(I will try and find stats remember reading some a while ago). If anything knowing everyone's DNA/fingerprints is on record may actually make people more careful and thus harder to catch.

Again the Gun analogy doesn't work because one is removing the implement of crime whereas collection of data/biometrics doesn't.
 
So, based on your comment. It is perfectly reasonable that an American who is pro guns would call European citizens who are mostly against guns... Sarcastic in believing that guns reduce murder rate and if they are not, then they are bunch of brainwashed by government, scared little rabbits who gave up their rights and freedoms?

Given that you're an individual who is against guns, since you believe that it makes society safer... Do you consider yourself a scared, brainwashed little rabbit?

Soooo... this forum is your place to practice nonsensical statements?

I didn't mention guns and neither did you in the post I quoted.

But IF you're being truthful in the words you're posting... then for some strange reason you believe that everybody everywhere should be boxed, categorised and labelled in order to stop "terrorism"... a problem that's not really a problem.

A problem that's killed millions... however, not in of itself... actual terrorism has killed a few thousand people... maybe touching into the 10s of thousands if we really push it... in the entirety of human history.

On the other hand... the "war on terror"... a media-bolstered framework used to invade and conquer other lands to steal and pillage from them happens to have killed millions.

And for some reason... you want to hand these mass-murdered a box and label machine so that they can commit even more atrocities at home too?

If you're not a troll, then you're obviously insane.
 
How can it be a good thing that the worst of society, i.e. government, gets to spy on everyone else without consequences, but everyone else can't spy on them without consequences.

Isn't this what the Stasi were doing? Oh, but they were Russians and Germans, not British, so I suppose it's totally different.
 
You say that but ISIS have set up websites with instructions for evading these blanket collection tactics. They even offer software to do it for download. If data collection actually worked well then these people who committed the France atrocities would have been picked up before they did it.

Murderers you are correct not always the brightest person but you don't have to be bright to avoid leaving DNA/Fingerprints. Someone of average intelligence can work out that wearing gloves prevent leaving fingerprints. DNA isn't just falling off us constantly. Wearing gloves and not leaving any bodily fluids at the crime scene isn't exactly rocket science and would certainly make a huge database worthless. If the victim scratches you then ok a database would be worthwhile.

I can't actually find stats but I believe a fairly low amount of crimes are actually prosecuted based on fingerprints/DNA as there tends to be a much more obvious/cheaper link to make(I will try and find stats remember reading some a while ago). If anything knowing everyone's DNA/fingerprints is on record may actually make people more careful and thus harder to catch.

Again the Gun analogy doesn't work because one is removing the implement of crime whereas collection of data/biometrics doesn't.

If you look across the world and who commits majority of crimes, they would be hopeless in hiding their DNA + Fingerprints. Most of crime is not finely planned and detailed, they have an idea but execution of it is extremely sloppy.

I believe that having everyone's DNA in a database is more likely to serve much more as a deterrent rather than cause people to be "too careful" To not leave any DNA or Fingerprints on crime scene, you'd literally have to be in full bio warfare costume... Which would raise few eye-brows to begin with.... In the end a criminal would have to take a lot more steps in order to conceal and that increases chances of a slip up that would lead to them being found... Not necessarily from DNA but once they pull up that you ordered a hazmat suit from Amazon... then you know.

I do not agree with you that gun analogy doesn't work, people naturally weigh pro's and con's of their actions... You're more likely to agree to shoot someone rather than kill them with your bare fists... Since that carries much more risks and its not as easy. DNA + Fingerprinting would be a massive addition in deterring individuals from committing crime as they would assume that the risk is not worth it.

Heck, you give majority of US shooters a knife and tell them to stab their victim instead and they won't do it. Even if they did, the investigators would have a lot more to go on, since it would be a close contact that would give a lot more leads.

Combine it all into one system, where having a gun is red flag, ordering anything that is designed to hide DNA + Fingerprints is red flag, researching into "perfect murder" is red flag and then having your biometrics in the government database to top it all off, you barely have any chance of committing any murder. Even if you tried, you'd have to take so many steps that chances that you will trip somewhere along the chain-link is extremely high.
 
OP your opinion is utterly mad. Do you really think that having everyone's personal info on file would result in a better happier society due to a lack of crime?

Fabrication of evidence would be so ridiculously easy to do if someone as part of the chain was that way inclined.

Evidence is fabricated now as it is, so it's a necessity of due process for them to have to work to prove guilt.
 
We've had almost two decades of scaremongering about government spying since the Twin Towers fell, and to date it has had absolutely no effect on my life whatsoever.
 
Soooo... this forum is your place to practice nonsensical statements?

I didn't mention guns and neither did you in the post I quoted.

But IF you're being truthful in the words you're posting... then for some strange reason you believe that everybody everywhere should be boxed, categorised and labelled in order to stop "terrorism"... a problem that's not really a problem.

A problem that's killed millions... however, not in of itself... actual terrorism has killed a few thousand people... maybe touching into the 10s of thousands if we really push it... in the entirety of human history.

On the other hand... the "war on terror"... a media-bolstered framework used to invade and conquer other lands to steal and pillage from them happens to have killed millions.

And for some reason... you want to hand these mass-murdered a box and label machine so that they can commit even more atrocities at home too?

If you're not a troll, then you're obviously insane.

What is the government going to do with your DNA and Fingerprints? That they can't do now?

How is it more dangerous for government to hold your DNA + Fingerprints rather than you having weapons?

Weapons are mere tools of killing, the main issue is the human brain that justifies it. Targeting that justification mechanism which DNA + fingerprints will do is bound to have positive effect. Maybe later on we can work on not being such sociapaths, for now establishing a MAD principle for an individual who contemplates on murdering is good enough.
 
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Fabrication of evidence would be so ridiculously easy to do if someone as part of the chain was that way inclined.

Evidence is fabricated now as it is, so it's a necessity of due process for them to have to work to prove guilt.

So you think that if government decides to fabricate evidence now, without having DNA database it would fail but if they had one... they most likely wouldn't??

Realistically it wont make a difference at all.
 
So you think that if government decides to fabricate evidence now, without having DNA database it would fail but if they had one... they most likely wouldn't??

Realistically it wont make a difference at all.

I didn't say it didn't happen, or would fail it would simply make it much easier. They could easily choose who the perpetrators were because they'd have a list of everyone and their details.
 
You would have to be mad in the had to believe the government never collected this information.

Legal or illegal it's going to be done so get over it.
 
I didn't say it didn't happen, or would fail it would simply make it much easier. They could easily choose who the perpetrators were because they'd have a list of everyone and their details.

Well at this point, you're in tin foil land...

I'm sure if you are that high on the list that they'd go through the trouble of pinching a hair out of your crack hole and placing it on the crime scene to incriminate you or trying to reproduce your butt crack hair in a lab from a database... They'd call Vlad and ask for the good old polonium...
 
If you look across the world and who commits majority of crimes, they would be hopeless in hiding their DNA + Fingerprints. Most of crime is not finely planned and detailed, they have an idea but execution of it is extremely sloppy.

Fair enough but if they're that dumb chances are there's going to be other evidence around that doesn't have the costs associated with DNA/fingerprints to collect/process.

I believe that having everyone's DNA in a database is more likely to serve much more as a deterrent rather than cause people to be "too careful" To not leave any DNA or Fingerprints on crime scene, you'd literally have to be in full bio warfare costume... Which would raise few eye-brows to begin with.... In the end a criminal would have to take a lot more steps in order to conceal and that increases chances of a slip up that would lead to them being found... Not necessarily from DNA but once they pull up that you ordered a hazmat suit from Amazon... then you know.

You "literally" wouldn't. As I said previously if you're wearing gloves you've knocked out fingerprints. If you're freshly scrubbed you won't be flaking skin everywhere. If your hair is combed chances are it's not going to fall out unless pulled. If you can control yourself not to spit/jizz/sneeze(?) then you won't leave much if anything. You don't have to go full body bag to prevent it.

I do not agree with you that gun analogy doesn't work, people naturally weigh pro's and con's of their actions... You're more likely to agree to shoot someone rather than kill them with your bare fists... Since that carries much more risks and its not as easy. DNA + Fingerprinting would be a massive addition in deterring individuals from committing crime as they would assume that the risk is not worth it.

Heck, you give majority of US shooters a knife and tell them to stab their victim instead and they won't do it. Even if they did, the investigators would have a lot more to go on, since it would be a close contact that would give a lot more leads.

A gun disconnects you from the actual action I imagine. Pulling a trigger and seeing someone drop is probably not as traumatic as stabbing or beating someone to death. However you've changed the analogy now. It wasn't to do with ease/risk initially. The analogy you provided was removing guns equates to less violence/shootings which is correct but having DNA/Fingerprints doesn't lead to less violence and shootings more just that they're potentially caught after the fact quicker.

Combine it all into one system, where having a gun is red flag, ordering anything that is designed to hide DNA + Fingerprints is red flag, researching into "perfect murder" is red flag and then having your biometrics in the government database to top it all off, you barely have any chance of committing any murder. Even if you tried, you'd have to take so many steps that chances that you will trip somewhere along the chain-link is extremely high.

It's a nice idea but how do you distinguish between the people preparing for a crime from those that just bought new gloves and cling film for what's left over for dinner tonight.

You still have exactly the same chance of committing a murder as you did before the collection of data. As you said the people commuting these crimes aren't the smartest around you think they're reall considering repercussion? Unless you're advocating some kind of Minority Report system...
 
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If everybody is on a DNA database then that would mark the end of letterbox logging. And that's not a future I want to entertain, sir.
 
Now now gents - everyone's entitled to their opinions. Even if it is singularly the most short sighted, idiotic opinion I've seen in 20 years of using the internet.
 
Well at this point, you're in tin foil land...

I'm sure if you are that high on the list that they'd go through the trouble of pinching a hair out of your crack hole and placing it on the crime scene to incriminate you or trying to reproduce your butt crack hair in a lab from a database... They'd call Vlad and ask for the good old polonium...
What? It happens already. Why are you talking about me? We're talking about society.
 
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