No Bigots Need Book An Airbnb Room

Caged · 31 Oct 2016 at 23:05

Are you claiming that you can't understand the intent of the words used, or are you fully aware of what the meaning behind it is but just want to apply the specific meaning of the word 'judgement' where it is synonymous with 'decision' to try and test it?

dowie · 31 Oct 2016 at 23:12

JunglistE said:
Would people prefer to pick and choose who they let in based on colour/religion/sexual orientation?

I would've thought if you were welcoming enough to do something like AirBNB any of the above shouldn't matter.

you forgot nationality and age

And yes of course they would even if they don't realise it, I'd wager far fewer people would be happy to use the service if they were blinded to any protected characteristics/photos of the guest or host(in the case of renting a room/sofa space) until after the booking.

Realistically some 20-something year old female students renting their couch or maybe a flatmate's room occasionally over weekends/holidays won't likely want a 60 year old man regardless of race - they're more likely to want someone also in their 20s, maybe 30s and maybe only want female guests. Now on a short term let on gumtree they'd be able to do this easily just as you can if searching for a longer term flatmate. It is common, standard... people advertise for 'vegan' flatshares, LGBT flat shares, people sometimes advertise for just a male or just a female flatmate and specify an age range. Then you meet with people too and see what they're like and discriminate that way - based on how you get on, perhaps how they look etc... I'd wager plenty of people renting out say a room while they go on holiday to cover the rent will discriminate in exactly the same way that is standard in the rental market.

I sublet a room for several years in London usually for 6 months or so at a time, it subsidised the rent of the permanent flatmates - two other girls. They were very picky about who we'd let the room to and we'd have a lot of choice - like 30+ emails within a day of advertising on gumtree. Anyone replying in broken English was instantly deleted then we'd have about a dozen people round to see the room. People were rejected for all sorts of reasons - no fat people for example after we did have one who was such a disaster we kicked her out after only a month. Mostly ended up with Aussies, a Chinese/Aussie an Italian girl, German girl, German guy and a Romanian girl.

muon · 31 Oct 2016 at 23:51

Angilion said:
You can't make a judgement without judgement. That should be obvious. No action or chosen inaction is possible without judgement. The only time a person doesn't use judgement is when they're unconscious (and maybe not even then). You used your judgement to choose to make a reply. You used your judgement to decide what words to type. Etc. Even when people are genuinely referred to as having not used their judgement, what that actually means is that they made a bad judgement. For example, when I was a child I tried to jump a river on a pedal bike. I judged that I could do it and I judged that it was a good idea to do it. I was wrong on both counts and I'm sure some people would say that I hadn't used my judgement. They'd be wrong - my judgement was bad, not non-existent.

Or are you using "judgement" to mean "only those judgements that I disagree with"?

Angilion has just gone into hyperbole land to make a point that doesn't exist.

If everyone reads the OP they will see a list of legally protected characteristics.

He can use the word judgement a hundred times in his posts if he wants, but the rules are about operating within the law, relatively homogeneous across the developed world.

It's pretty obvious that the arguments are getting pretty desperate when trying to counter this change.

Malevolence · 31 Oct 2016 at 23:58

FoxEye · 1 Nov 2016 at 00:09

chief barker said:
I wonder what the reaction would be from forum members if they were forced to accept a ***** into their home considering nobody should be discriminated against?

No way in hell I'd trust stranger, white, black, straight or gay, to flounce around in our house.

You have to to have a lot more faith in humanity than I can muster, I guess; my default position is that everybody is a murdering raping thieving psychopath until proven otherwise. So any stranger in our house is a horrific idea to me.

Don't trust anyone. It's the only way to be sure.

Caged · 1 Nov 2016 at 00:17

Sounds like you wouldn't be renting a room out on Airbnb then, regardless of their terms and conditions.

FoxEye · 1 Nov 2016 at 00:22

Caged said:
Sounds like you wouldn't be renting a room out on Airbnb then, regardless of their terms and conditions.

Absolutely not. And I can't understand why anyone would open up their home to strangers... sooner or later you're going to have something bad happen, no?

Whether it's theft or something worse... Again, white, black, straight, gay, I'd imagine that instances of crime when you have a lot of people who are "passing through" are higher because of the increased chance to get away with it.

Is there anything to stop people signing up to AirBnB with a false name, for example?

I only commented because someone said "how'd you like a ***** to come round"... well how do you know anybody might not be a crazy? Physical appearance doesn't tell the whole story... Plenty of well-spoken, well-heeled crazies out there...

shoes · 1 Nov 2016 at 00:46

Tosno said:
For example, if I refuse to let my room to a 34 year old Syrian child that has decided now he's in England, he's a big boy and wants to be independent from his foster parents, I would be breaching the commitment.

I have heard Syrian refugees are rife in the Airbnb :rolleyes:

Angilion · 1 Nov 2016 at 01:54

muon said:
Angilion has just gone into hyperbole land to make a point that doesn't exist.

If everyone reads the OP they will see a list of legally protected characteristics.

Which are explicitly excluded from the statement about what the rules are.

He can use the word judgement a hundred times in his posts if he wants, but the rules are about operating within the law, relatively homogeneous across the developed world.

It's pretty obvious that the arguments are getting pretty desperate when trying to counter this change.

You're making something up, deciding that's what the rules mean even though it's not what they say...and you're accusing me of making desperate arguments.

I used the word judgement repeatedly because that's the key word in the stated rules. Unless, of course, you assume that Airbnb meant one thing and wrote another.

Kenai · 1 Nov 2016 at 05:50

Angilion said:
You can't make a judgement without judgement. That should be obvious. No action or chosen inaction is possible without judgement. The only time a person doesn't use judgement is when they're unconscious (and maybe not even then). You used your judgement to choose to make a reply. You used your judgement to decide what words to type. Etc. Even when people are genuinely referred to as having not used their judgement, what that actually means is that they made a bad judgement. For example, when I was a child I tried to jump a river on a pedal bike. I judged that I could do it and I judged that it was a good idea to do it. I was wrong on both counts and I'm sure some people would say that I hadn't used my judgement. They'd be wrong - my judgement was bad, not non-existent.

Or are you using "judgement" to mean "only those judgements that I disagree with"?

To 'treat with judgement' is different to making a judgement.

Evole · 1 Nov 2016 at 06:12

If you don't agree, stop using them.

dirtybeatfreak · 1 Nov 2016 at 09:03

CapitalOne said:
Before using the word "literally" please look it up in the dictionary!

VincentHanna said:
No he didn't.

You can't "literally" live somewhere that doesn't exist

CapitalOne said:
No no no NO!

literally
ADVERB

1In a literal manner or sense; exactly.
‘the driver took it literally when asked to go straight over the roundabout’
‘tiramisu, literally translated ‘pull-me-up’’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1informal Used for emphasis while not being literally true.
‘I was literally blown away by the response I got’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/literally

Dis86 · 1 Nov 2016 at 10:21

dirtybeatfreak said:
literally
ADVERB

1In a literal manner or sense; exactly.
‘the driver took it literally when asked to go straight over the roundabout’
‘tiramisu, literally translated ‘pull-me-up’’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1informal Used for emphasis while not being literally true.
‘I was literally blown away by the response I got’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/literally

Lol cheers! Shame they can't read like us eh?

VincentHanna · 1 Nov 2016 at 10:37

I read that they changed the definition in 2013

Stupid decision if you ask me. Figuratively is the correct word.

Anyway, In think there are more pressing matters in this thread.

dirtybeatfreak · 1 Nov 2016 at 11:12

VincentHanna said:
Anyway, In think there are more pressing matters in this thread.

[childish response]

There are more pressing matters, but you brought it up first!!!

[/childish response]

<3

Amp34 · 1 Nov 2016 at 16:52

regulus said:
I know. And I also know you're smart enough to realise that I freely use the term SJW to people that freely use 'racism' to drive home a weak argument.

Neither helps and both are equally dumb.

In the end, people are going to do what people are going to do. Some will be bigots, some will be more accommodating to others, some will straddle the fence. You try and force your views on people, guys like Trump suddenly become very popular.

But at least with the T&Cs AirB&B have a legitimate and easy way to remove those less accommodating people from their business if they want.

Amp34 · 1 Nov 2016 at 16:56

FoxEye said:
No way in hell I'd trust stranger, white, black, straight or gay, to flounce around in our house.

You have to to have a lot more faith in humanity than I can muster, I guess; my default position is that everybody is a murdering raping thieving psychopath until proven otherwise. So any stranger in our house is a horrific idea to me.

Don't trust anyone. It's the only way to be sure.

That's why they have ratings on their site, for both hosts and hostees. You can see they haven't been a problem to others.

And sooner or later if you leave the house something bad will probably happen. That doesn't mean you don't leave the house though does it?

Edit: oh, and to get a verified account you have to scan and send a piece of government ID to AirB&B to reduce the risk of incorrect data on your account (e.g. Fake names).

muon · 1 Nov 2016 at 20:30

Angilion said:
Which are explicitly excluded from the statement about what the rules are.

You're making something up, deciding that's what the rules mean even though it's not what they say...and you're accusing me of making desperate arguments.

I used the word judgement repeatedly because that's the key word in the stated rules. Unless, of course, you assume that Airbnb meant one thing and wrote another.

I decided to read the email from I got from Airbnb.

https://www.airbnb.co.uk/terms/nondiscrimination_policy

I actually can't find the word "judgement" anywhere.

So are you happy with the policy now? Or was that a mask for something else the whole time?

aslco · 1 Nov 2016 at 21:43

If these rules were legislation i'd be dead against it. But its not, its a company deciding what it wants to be and stand for, and that's perfectly fine in an open free market country. People don't like it then? - then the custom (the people advertising via airbnb) should go elsewhere

Angilion · 1 Nov 2016 at 23:34

muon said:
I decided to read the email from I got from Airbnb.

https://www.airbnb.co.uk/terms/nondiscrimination_policy

I actually can't find the word "judgement" anywhere.

So are you happy with the policy now? Or was that a mask for something else the whole time?

That newly stated and quite different policy looks fair to me.

Are you aware that people sometimes disagree for reasons other than irrational prejudices?