USS Zumwalt - Are they worth it?

It's not just the US though, every major military power has invested into stealth technology for their ships and planes. From what I've read it's not about whether a plane or ship is detectable or not detectable, it effects the range from which they can be detected, what bands of the EM spectrum they're detectable in, and how easy it is to get a missile lock on them. It's not just a case of making them look smaller on radar.

Well there's only three of 'em, so whatever power they had will be very limited.

I suppose in reality if the Railguns are added, they can simply be seen as sniper units but for the sea, thus far more important job of hitting strategic targets.
 
This is the US we're talking about, they literally fund anything the military wants regardless of viability.

The problem is that priorities change, its all drones now so the funding moved to that (which isnt a stupid thing).

Ummmm nope that's not really true. Crusader SPG, Sgt York mobile AA gun, Seawolf SSN, Zumwalt DDG... all programs either defunded or cancelled outright due to lack of performance or cost overruns. Even America has finite budgets.
 
You sound strangely sure. How can you be so confident? I'm sure our navy had plans to stop the Argentines hitting our ships, but that confidence was obviously ill-founded.

Whilst that's true, we had to make do with the best we had which was fairly poor even by the standards of the day, and mainly due to budget cuts. With no real carriers and therefore no Airbourne Early Warning, the Argentine aircraft were able to get very close by flying extremely low. The Sea Dart missiles carried by the Type 42s were not designed to counter this. Sea Wolf on the Type 22s was, but was brand new and still effectively being developed - plus we only had two ships that carried it. No RN ship had a CIWS for point defence then either.

It's easy with hindsight of course, but had we spent the large funds on real carriers to replace Ark Royal and Eagle and invested in CIWS the outcome would have been quite different.
 
The point is that you can have whatever defences you want, but if the enemy develop something which can bypass them then you're a sitting duck. Even if you have something which is designed to do x, or combat y, it doesn't mean it'll work flawlessly - eg. Patriot Missiles. You can't just say, 'yeah, that won't be a problem, they've got that covered'... unless you're privy to secret stuff which means you'll soon be cellmates with Chelsea Manning.

Indeed, that's the nature of military evolution. To clarify I'm not saying that no ships would have been sunk/damaged in 82, but almost certainly less would have been. But you're absolutely right, no technology or strategy can guarantee survival. Sinking more funding into something will generally improve the odds but that's all.
 
Indeed, that's the nature of military evolution. To clarify I'm not saying that no ships would have been sunk/damaged in 82, but almost certainly less would have been. But you're absolutely right, no technology or strategy can guarantee survival. Sinking more funding into something will generally improve the odds but that's all.

Recall watching a documentary on some of this. Wasn't there one incident where two British ships being hit simply down to human error?
One of them had the incoming aircraft/missiles locked onto when suddenly the 2nd ship sailed right across her los and broke their targeting solution. Ship in front took a hit and the 2nd got hit even harder?
 
Recall watching a documentary on some of this. Wasn't there one incident where two British ships being hit simply down to human error?
One of them had the incoming aircraft/missiles locked onto when suddenly the 2nd ship sailed right across her los and broke their targeting solution. Ship in front took a hit and the 2nd got hit even harder?

Yes - HMS Coventry and HMS Broadsword

http://www.hmscoventry.co.uk/25thmay1982.php
 
With Trump in charge I'm actually coming round to the idea of renewing Trident. We can no longer rely on NATO as he's openly questioned whether the US should automatically defend it's allies.
 
This is the thing with big expensive ships, one cheap missile will sink this ship. The ship has defences and stealth to protect it, but it only takes one for it to visit the bottom of the sea.

Who needs a missile, crazies and a dingy will do the trick, just look at USS Cole bombing
 
NATO is dead and buried now with Trump in power.

This is completely false, all Trump was saying is that NATO needs to contribute more than they are, which is a fair point really. Why should America pay for the defence of Europe?
 
Because Europe shares a land border with the USA's greatest enemy, Russia, therefore it's in the USA best interest to protect Europe.

The idea of NATO is that it's an alliance, not the US defending everyone. All NATO countries pledged to spend 2% of their GDP on Defence in order to maintain the necessary readiness in case of enemy aggression. What's wrong with expecting NATO countries (including the UK) to deliver on what they've agreed on?
 
Because Europe shares a land border with the USA's greatest enemy, Russia, therefore it's in the USA best interest to protect Europe.

Well they do, but we should also contribute. Europe is pathetic when it comes to military spending, especially Germany. It would be so easy for Russia to roll it's tanks through Western Europe right now
 
The idea of NATO is that it's an alliance, not the US defending everyone. All NATO countries pledged to spend 2% of their GDP on Defence in order to maintain the necessary readiness in case of enemy aggression. What's wrong with expecting NATO countries (including the UK) to deliver on what they've agreed on?

Whilst I agree that other nations should be spending 2% as per their commitment, going in ham-fisted and making ultimatums about leaving NATO isn't going to get the result that is desired.
 
Trump on Nato is like saying someone isn't paying their taxes, so we just wont bother with having anything at all

at least the US can go back to building 32 Zumwalts because Trumps going to double the defense budget...
 
Trump on Nato is like saying someone isn't paying their taxes, so we just wont bother with having anything at all

at least the US can go back to building 32 Zumwalts because Trumps going to double the defense budget...

My guess is that Trump will prefer to spend more on the traditional elements of the armed forces - mechanised cavalry, infantry, helicopters etc. rather than on expensive experimental technology like the Zumwalt.
 
This is completely false, all Trump was saying is that NATO needs to contribute more than they are, which is a fair point really. Why should America pay for the defence of Europe?

He actually said either Europe pull their weight and pay up more and put more men,equipment into it or US leaves.

Cant see Europe coughing up more or putting more men/equipment into it.
 
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