Angela Merkel and her decisions

[Arazi]

Seriously? You're suggesting that something I've posted is going to get this thread closed? Stop hiding behind vagaries be specific - show me what I've said that's against the rules.

I was joking, have a minute

e: But there are people on here who do what i suggested earlier.

 

[adolf hamster]

Yeah because France has never introduced certain measures at beaches and stuff

That's why I said "meant to be" not are, although tbf given what the French have been through recently I'm not surprised they're lashing out.

 

[prosk]

From a moral perspective there's probably not much difference between forcing all women to wear a veil and forcing all women to not wear it. It's a change that has to come from the women themselves and even the men, and the best that we can do as a society is to make them feel secure enough to choose either way.

 

[robgmun]

You're probably never going to persuade first generation immigrants from certain areas of the world, especially if they are older, to stop wearing a veil, but the likelihood is their children growing up in the west won't wear one so it's a self solving problem using our education systems and cultures.

With all the Islamic school teaching hate to kids, I don't see the future as rosy as you do. Young girls are forced into the face vile as you well know.

 

[Amp34]

Who?

He's talking about me, largely because I have the audacity to quote people making ridiculous assertions and providing data to show they are wrong... I'm sure he's spitting feathers because I've actually provided a poll to the assertions that Merkel is disliked...

He then likes to complain that I'm the reason threads get shut down, not because the threads degenerate into more and more inflammatory posting by the "usual suspects", not backed up by any evidence as they try and refute the links and data I post.

 

[Amp34]

With all the Islamic school teaching hate to kids, I don't see the future as rosy as you do. Young girls are forced into the face vile as you well know.

Which islamic schools are they? How many are they? And how many Muslims in the U.K. (Or Germany for that matter) go to Islamic schools over the standard state comp?

Yes some young women are forced into veils, but the majority? Or even a lot? And how many of those young women continue to wear them after they have left the house?

 

[Arazi]

He's talking about me, largely because I have the audacity to quote people making ridiculous assertions and providing data to show they are wrong... I'm sure he's spitting feathers because I've actually provided a poll to the assertions that Merkel is disliked...

He then likes to complain that I'm the reason threads get shut down, not because the threads degenerate into more and more inflammatory posting by the "usual suspects", not backed up by any evidence as they try and refute the links and data I post.

Not just you, sorry to burst your bubble

 

[robgmun]

Which islamic schools are they? How many are they? And how many Muslims in the U.K. (Or Germany for that matter) go to Islamic schools over the standard state comp?

Yes some young women are forced into veils, but the majority? Or even a lot? And how many of those young women continue to wear them after they have left the house?

Unless you've been living under a rock they've been a few widely reported reports on these schools, largely unregulated and teaching extremism, they seems to be a particular problem in Birmingham. Acting dumb and asking inane questions just makes you look out of touch

 

[Amp34]

Not just you, sorry to burst your bubble

Not suggesting it's just me.

Unless you've been living under a rock they've been a few widely reported reports on these schools, largely unregulated and teaching extremism, they seems to be a particular problem in Birmingham. Acting dumb and asking inane questions just makes you look out of touch

I'm not arguing that some schools are doing that, but I'm questioning your assertion that it's more than a few isolated cases.

I'm not acting dumb, or asking inane questions, I'm asking you to back up your assertion that this is a major problem (in the UK or Germany) and that banning the veil will make a difference.

Just doing a bit of research myself:

http://ams-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/AMS-Brochure.pdf - association of Muslim Schills brochure.

Now that suggests around 25,000 Muslim kids go to Muslim schools, 5% of the overall Muslim student population (the other 95% go to state schools).

We also have this http://muslimnews.co.uk/newspaper/h...ture-in-the-top-50-examination-league-tables/

Muslim secondary schools in England continue to excel a total of 8 independent Muslim schools were featured in the top 50 of the examination league tables for 2014.
And for the second consecutive year over half of Muslim schools featured in the Department of Education league table [published this January] have surpassed the national average of students achieving 5 or more GCSE’s or equivalent A*-C grades including English and Math GCSEs.
The combined Muslim schools average for that indicator has also surpassed the national figure of 53 per cent last year. 42 of the 75 Muslim schools featured in The Muslim News performance table managed to attain a higher pass rate than the national average, two more than in 2013.

While academic success is obviously not proof that these schools probably aren't the extreme Muslim schools you're on about I'd suggest schools teaching extremist Islamic doctrine probably aren't also going to have much time to teach students the British curriculum to a high standard.

So while there are problems in some cases, unless you can actually provide some data that it's actually more widespread than it appears then I'll stick to my assertion that it's fairly isolated and not something we should be using as a major point to do something draconian like banning a particular item of clothing.

 

[Pawnless Endgame]

Not sure why middle class white people in modern free democratic countries are so scared of veils surely there are better things that our governments could focus on like the wealth gap in society etc or maybe it's just me that thinks racial hatred is a convenient side line to distract people......

We're debating religious dress, not the amount of pigmentation in one's skin, so drop the race card. The word 'racism' is over-used to the point that it has lost all meaning, and people now have to disguise it under the new term 'cultural appropriation'.

IMO, in countries where church and state is separate, religion should never be forced on others (like what happened to me in my last workplace). Religious dress and religious activity should be confined to places of worship, in their own homes / not in public.

I'm all for RE being taught to kids, but it has to be on all major religions and impartial. Objective is the key, not subjective. Under no circumstances are kids to be indoctrinated. They can make up their own mind when they hit 16-18, like with being able to vote, drive a car, buy a lottery ticket, drink at the bar, have a shag etc

Disclaimer: I'm white, but far from middle class. Bottom 10% of earners

 

[Tefal]

If I chose to wear a balaclava about town and wasn't up to any wrongdoing, what possible reason would someone have to want me to remove it other than they didn't like me wearing it.

go and do this.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Exactly so surely purely for safety they should all be outright banned if we ban the burka.

No, you can't do that... you do that and bikers will start wearing bandannas and leather caps like in 'Murica - It'll be awful!!!

their society deems slaves collars are the correct thing to wear.

And if their society also deems it acceptable to kill children in settlement of honour?
But they're not in 'their' society, are they? They're in ours.
We have to abide by their conventions when in their countries. Why do they not have to abide by ours when they're here?

Any attack on islam, regardless of how small (this burka ban) is an offence as dire as drawing the prophet in some peoples eyes (terrorists/extremists/morons).

Then they should go read the Qur'an, then and show me where it says, "thou shalt dress thy womenfolk as Ninjas, for they should go unseen, unheard, unsung and unspoken... "
It's not an attack on Islam, because Islam has no such thing (AFAIK). It's a cultural thing which does not gel with the culture of certain other countries.

 

[helpimcrap]

"wherever it is legally possible"

sounds like a get out clause

This. Means absolutely nothing except she's playing to the cameras.

If I'm right in thinking it's not a religious necessity anyway as opposed to a motorbike helmet etc which is a safety reason and has to be removed where security is a problem.

ALL head coverings should be treated equally - hats, helmets, burkas etc should be taken off at least for security reasons. It's not rocket science, it's just common sense.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

I'm pretty sure she isn't wildly popular in Germany like she once was or am I mistaken.

This is true. We are in an age where populism reigns supreme over actual decent policy. See Trump, Farage, Corbyn etc.

 

[helpimcrap]

This is true. We are in an age where populism reigns supreme over actual decent policy. See Trump, Farage, Corbyn etc.

Maybe - but what if her policies are flawed and are what's contributing to the worlds problems rather than fixing them? She has genuinely good intentions however very poor implementation. The EU is quite simply too big to manage with so many different cultures in it. You can't please all of the people all of the time and the lack of integration is the biggest problem faced by free movement of people. Move if you want to - BUT INTEGRATE! don't force your ways and views on the natives. Respect works both ways.

I don't want every country to be the same - if I visit Spain I want to see bull fighting, if I visit France I want to see Garlic around their necks, if I visit Germany I want to see efficiency and no sense of humour etc....

Obviously I don't want to see anything or anyone get hurt but I was just emphasising my point by stereotyping.

I sound like a racist dick but I am far from it.

 

[adolf hamster]

if I visit Germany I want to see efficiency and no sense of humour etc....

i don't think a country that has a beer festival, an asparagus festival, and the kind of kings who have their mood-lit concrete cave as an annex to their bedroom can be described as not having a sense of humour

 

[helpimcrap]

i don't think a country that has a beer festival, an asparagus festival, and the kind of kings who have their mood-lit concrete cave as an annex to their bedroom can be described as not having a sense of humour

I have German family - they are mad as a box of frogs! lol Brilliant fun.

 

[adolf hamster]

I have German family - they are mad as a box of frogs! lol Brilliant fun.

Yeah, funny stereotype really, just seems to be the culture we see in business of the calm, effecient, logical people, but really its a case of work hard play hard, just unless you know germans socially you wouldnt see the play hard bit.

 

[Safetytrousers]

Removing the veil gives them rights.

A number of the women who wear full veil genuinely want of their own free will to do that. It can't be serving the rights of those people to force them to remove that piece of garment.

And you can abuse someones rights just as much with their face uncovered as you can with their face covered. Forcing someone to wear an Islamic veil may be the very least of many wrongs that is being done to them. Removing the veil from badly abused people would not make the major issues of their lives any better.

 

[Uther]

When we were in Bavaria recently the politzei made my son take off his cap before entering a beer festival.
Everyone was walking around in lederhosen, which was seen as perfectly acceptable, but caps were verboten
Still, their country, their rules...