Lloyds Bank to axe hundreds of jobs / and now RBS

It's difficult and expensive NOW, but it won't be in the future.

There will always be jobs for Humans as I agree that some jobs are better suited to us Humans but there aren't going to be enough jobs for every Tom, Dick & Harry.

We need to shift our focus on how we're going to manage the 'unemployed' as the numbers will continue to grow. It's not going to grow very much for the next 20 years or so but it will come and we need to be prepared for that.

Not many care about the unemployed right now except when squandering happens. What makes you think they'll care when this is a huge problem 10 - 20 years from now? You know how society is, I'm alright jack?

Even Government doesn't care as long as you aren't on the list taking money and effecting their statistics.
 
It's difficult and expensive NOW, but it won't be in the future.

There will always be jobs for Humans as I agree that some jobs are better suited to us Humans but there aren't going to be enough jobs for every Tom, Dick & Harry.

We need to shift our focus on how we're going to manage the 'unemployed' as the numbers will continue to grow. It's not going to grow very much for the next 20 years or so but it will come and we need to be prepared for that.

It still will be for a very long time.

Probbaly about the same time fusion gets fracks
 
A universal basic income could be funded by taxing work units. Ie tax the automation.

What does that even mean and can you give an example of how it would be implemented? It sounds really dubious and counterproductive - taxing 'work units' - presumably these units are based on how some process used to be done so then if someone creates a super efficient way of doing things there then becomes a massive disincentive to it in the form of a huge tax bill for their innovation. Is some civil servant at HMRC supposed to check every new bit of code that makes an improvement somewhere in case it then becomes taxable?
 
What does that even mean and can you give an example of how it would be implemented? It sounds really dubious and counterproductive - taxing 'work units' - presumably these units are based on how some process used to be done so then if someone creates a super efficient way of doing things there then becomes a massive disincentive to it in the form of a huge tax bill for their innovation. Is some civil servant at HMRC supposed to check every new bit of code that makes an improvement somewhere in case it then becomes taxable?

At it's simplest form; A robotic arm replaces a human on an assembly line. The company pays a tax for the arm. Or a staffed checkout is replaced with a self service till. The company pays a tax for the till. Yes it's just high level but could be worth looking at.
 
They really arent though.

Replacing simple jobs is firstly ludicrously difficult and secondly insanely expensive when you have a cheap (and usualy more capable) human alternative.


Automation hits the more expensive technical jobs.

Bank tellers, checkout operators and numerous other customer service staff are not "more expensive technical jobs". Driving isn't a particularly expensive technical job either and the writing's on the wall for those jobs. Some are already gone. Unloading cargo wasn't an expensive technical job and that's almost completely gone already.

I think you're excessively optimistic. We can't all be employed as cleaners, especially when there's less to clean because more is done online.
 
Bank tellers, checkout operators and numerous other customer service staff are not "more expensive technical jobs". Driving isn't a particularly expensive technical job either and the writing's on the wall for those jobs. Some are already gone. Unloading cargo wasn't an expensive technical job and that's almost completely gone already.

I think you're excessively optimistic. We can't all be employed as cleaners, especially when there's less to clean because more is done online.

i think you're the one being excessively optimistic tbh.

biggest sector hit by automation in job numbers is manufacturing, skilled fitters/technicians.
 
i think you're the one being excessively optimistic tbh.

Mass unemployment and no plan to deal with it (with me being one of the people affected within a few years).

Why on earth do you think that's an excessively optimistic position?

If you'd said you thought I was being excessively pessimistic, that would have been consistent. I'd still think you're wrong, but I could see how you reached that conclusion.
 
Mass unemployment and no plan to deal with it (with me being one of the people affected within a few years).

Why on earth do you think that's an excessively optimistic position?

If you'd said you thought I was being excessively pessimistic, that would have been consistent. I'd still think you're wrong, but I could see how you reached that conclusion.

.nope youre being wildy optimistic on the progression of machine inteligence, robotics and production costs.

Much in the same way somone saying "omg fusion is going to destroy the fossil fuel industry within a few years" would be wildly optimistic

Current largest automation project ive seen (costing hundreds of millions and been in consturction for over a year, and design for several) has resulted in massive intake of contractors to stand where the robots should be and do the drilling cause the robots just dont work.

And this is a task that should be ideally suited to robots (putting bitts of metal together then drilling through).

Also when it is actually working as planned its expected to need several hundred people to still work as operators, this doesnt include maintainence or the manufacture of the robots.

And will prroduce even more jobs down the line to keep up with the machines production (if it ever works).

Every time people say automation will cost jobs its often lead to an increase over all as theres more volume.

Something really complicated like replacing menial labour in shops wpuld be hilarious to watch.

Most of what your citing as automation isnt automation at all its simply replacing the employee with the customer, self service tills, online banking, pay at pump. No work is really being done by a robot or machine just now the customer scans thier own stuff, fills in thier own forms and operates thier own till.

Its all still a human doing the same action.

If you think you're going to lose your job within "a few years" to a machine im interested what you do?
 
A universal basic income could be funded by taxing work units. Ie tax the automation.

Exactly - automation still produces something that is then sold - the company that produces something via automation still pays tax (or should do!) on the profit made from sales. A basic income will become a necessity, rather than a "nice to have".
 
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Most of what your citing as automation isnt automation at all its simply replacing the employee with the customer, self service tills, online banking, pay at pump. No work is really being done by a robot or machine just now the customer scans thier own stuff, fills in thier own forms and operates thier own till.

Its all still a human doing the same action.

It's still less employment. You're talking only about large-scale automation directly replacing humans with robots. Other people are talking about employment. So we're not even talking about the same thing.

If you think you're going to lose your job within "a few years" to a machine im interested what you do?

Bingo club. I suppose I'd better state that I'm not claiming that humanoid robots will replace us directly within a few years. The machines in question are tablets, card payment systems, cash handling machines connected to the main computer system (so customers can pay in cash as well as by card), cash dispensing machines connected to the main computer system (so customers can cash out their winnings when they want) and, more widely, the internet (which has hugely reduced the physical bingo business). It could all be done right now. There would still be a bit of employment for cleaning and handling complaints. Probably a bit more for cooking because and it would probably be more profitable to keep that as it is. But nobody's saying all employment will disappear. Enough to require changes, but not all of it. And not all by robots.
 
Does anyone seriously believe that the tories could ever throw people a basic income?

If they are forced to, they will fudge it somehow, like most nations i'd imagine. It also becomes extremely difficult to fund other things if you need the basic income to go with Inflation and be liveable.

The only way it is liveable is if we also did not have the current housing bubble, so that has to crash before its feasible as unfortunately London will simply become the "creative" capital as well.

Also, honestly, i will not be working 30+ years of my life behind some ****** desk to help people who won the birth lottery, I'd rather suffer.
 
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Out of interest, we've had automated car washes for decades now yet I prefer to take my car to a hand wash place, and judging by the queues so do a lot of other people. I've never seen a queue at an automated wash. How many other people prefer hand washes to machine wash?
Hand wash all the way.
 
Yeah surely it's only a matter of time until the person sitting between a customer and a knowledge base/flow chart is replaced. The hurdle seemed to be understanding natural language.
 
At it's simplest form; A robotic arm replaces a human on an assembly line. The company pays a tax for the arm. Or a staffed checkout is replaced with a self service till. The company pays a tax for the till. Yes it's just high level but could be worth looking at.

Like how company's pay tax on profits right now?

Sorry but it won't work.
 
There will have to be something, obviously, because consumerism won't just die will it? What's the point in having all of these automated systems if everyone is skint? What will these companies produce in that scenario?
 
Like how company's pay tax on profits right now?

Sorry but it won't work.

Maybe it will and maybe it won't. At least I'm trying to think of suggestions and look to the future. I see massive changes coming and want to think of the different ways that society could adapt.

Have a better idea?
 
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