Alexander Blackman

[Sega Mega Dave]

I guess depending on your background, especially in the case of a military one, you're going to think differently. I do agree that the government have failed to provide proper treatment. But then I would also argue physical injury and recovery is probably too much of the focus, while mental trauma doesn't seem to get mentioned an awful lot. I fundamentally disagree with the military way of breaking someone down to build them back up again. However you want to approach it, it is ******* rank and makes reintegration almost impossible. If fortunate enough to escape with your life, most leave the military with some form of personality disorder - in a lot of cases untreatable.

Alexander Blackman was incapable of thinking indifferently. Can a brainwashed marine be pinned with all the blame? Of course not. When you see these guys filming what is essentially brutality and torture, I am sorry but you are definitely not a hero at this point. Signing yourself up to be duped into thinking this way isn't heroic either. To me this says inability or lack of self determination and worth. You can't fix these issues by masking them with training, therefor the basis of recruitment is often completely irresponsible.

Alexander Blackman shouldn't have been there in the first place, but then who is to blame for that? The government, the military or himself? Maybe a mixture of all three?

How do you draw the line between a murderer out on the streets with a knife, incapable of thinking for himself and a soldier out in the desert holding a rifle incapable of thinking for himself.

You can't, the whole thing is so double standard. Hence the sick feeling.

I haven't got the effort to go into detail what a load of old ******** this post is.

 

[Sega Mega Dave]

TBH he should have just left him there to bleed out in pain.

Pond life don't deserve to be treated as anything more.

 

[gettothechopper]

I fundamentally disagree with the military way of breaking someone down to build them back up again. However you want to approach it, it is ******* rank and makes reintegration almost impossible. If fortunate enough to escape with your life, most leave the military with some form of personality disorder - in a lot of cases untreatable.

Alexander Blackman was incapable of thinking indifferently. Can a brainwashed marine be pinned with all the blame? Of course not. When you see these guys filming what is essentially brutality and torture, I am sorry but you are definitely not a hero at this point. Signing yourself up to be duped into thinking this way isn't heroic either. To me this says inability or lack of self determination and worth. You can't fix these issues by masking them with training, therefor the basis of recruitment is often completely irresponsible.

Alexander Blackman shouldn't have been there in the first place, but then who is to blame for that? The government, the military or himself? Maybe a mixture of all three?

How do you draw the line between a murderer out on the streets with a knife, incapable of thinking for himself and a soldier out in the desert holding a rifle incapable of thinking for himself.

You can't, the whole thing is so double standard. Hence the sick feeling.

You win the "most load of rubbish in the whole thread" award
And I'm on the side that thinks its right that he is punished!

you are awarded three rolleyes smilies =

 

[Bluntwrapped]

You win the "most load of rubbish in the whole thread" award
And I'm on the side that thinks its right that he is punished!

you are awarded three rolleyes smilies =

It's funny you believe you're in a position to decide who gets that award

It may be a long winded post but if you're prepared to ignore fact what is the point.

 

[Bluntwrapped]

I haven't got the effort to go into detail what a load of old ******** this post is.

As above. Merry Xmas

 

[TheMightyTen]

I guess depending on your background, especially in the case of a military one, you're going to think differently. I do agree that the government have failed to provide proper treatment. But then I would also argue physical injury and recovery is probably too much of the focus, while mental trauma doesn't seem to get mentioned an awful lot. I fundamentally disagree with the military way of breaking someone down to build them back up again. However you want to approach it, it is ******* rank and makes reintegration almost impossible. If fortunate enough to escape with your life, most leave the military with some form of personality disorder - in a lot of cases untreatable.

Alexander Blackman was incapable of thinking indifferently. Can a brainwashed marine be pinned with all the blame? Of course not. When you see these guys filming what is essentially brutality and torture, I am sorry but you are definitely not a hero at this point. Signing yourself up to be duped into thinking this way isn't heroic either. To me this says inability or lack of self determination and worth. You can't fix these issues by masking them with training, therefor the basis of recruitment is often completely irresponsible.

Alexander Blackman shouldn't have been there in the first place, but then who is to blame for that? The government, the military or himself? Maybe a mixture of all three?

How do you draw the line between a murderer out on the streets with a knife, incapable of thinking for himself and a soldier out in the desert holding a rifle incapable of thinking for himself.

You can't, the whole thing is so double standard. Hence the sick feeling.

What an utter load of tosh. It sounds more like you're the one with an untreatable personality disorder I believe it's called "liking the smell of your own ****"

Three generations of my family, and all our comrades have successfully had careers and left Military service without a single problem and have all led perfectly normal lives.

Your view is so obviously based on utterly false theories clouded by a complete and total bias backed by a lack of actual experience of the subject you appear to be pretending to be an "expert" in.

 

[Bluntwrapped]

What an utter load of tosh. It sounds more like you're the one with an untreatable personality disorder I believe it's called "liking the smell of your own ****"

Three generations of my family, and all our comrades have successfully had careers and left Military service without a single problem and have all led perfectly normal lives.

Your view is so obviously based on utterly false theories clouded by a complete and total bias backed by a lack of actual experience of the subject you appear to be pretending to be an "expert" in.

Again, I wouldn't expect someone with a military background to agree with me, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

My theories aren't false. Your family experiences may be positive, but this doesn't make it the case for all. A previous colleague went though hell during his career in the military, and above and beyond anything else stating what should be the obvious isn't bias.

I'm definitely not an expert but accusing me of bias is a bit pot and kettle is it not?

If you're a right-winger I'm sure I'm wasting my time. If that is the case just ignore me and I'll do the same for you

 

[gettothechopper]

Again, I wouldn't expect someone with a military background to agree with me

I am not in the military

My theories aren't false. Your family experiences may be positive, but this doesn't make it the case for all. A previous colleague went though hell during his career in the military, and above and beyond anything else stating what should be the obvious isn't bias.

You know 1 person who had a bad time
There are hundreds of thousands of people who are, or were in the military

your first post said "MOST leave the military with some form of personality disorder - in a lot of cases untreatable "

do you not see the problem here?

Of course many veterans leave the forces with some terrible, terrible problems, and not enough is done to help them, but all that stuff about brainwashing is nonsense

If you're a right-winger I'm sure I'm wasting my time.

I am certainly not a right winger either

 

[Bluntwrapped]

I am not in the military



You know 1 person who had a bad time
There are hundreds of thousands of people who are, or were in the military

your first post said "MOST leave the military with some form of personality disorder - in a lot of cases untreatable "

do you not see the problem here?

Of course many veterans leave the forces with some terrible, terrible problems, and not enough is done to help them, but all that stuff about brainwashing is nonsense




I am certainly not a right winger either

So you wouldn't say those who believe this Alexander Blackman is innocent of any wrongdoing aren't wrong?

And therefor in context to the colleagues of this guy eventually retiring from their post under the belief their pal Alex didn't do anything wrong, don't have a personality disorder to some degree?

To be supportive of taking someone's life, it seems fair to say you would need to have limited outlook of life? Would it then not be fair to say this limited outlook is deliberate from a military perspective?

Could this not then be interpreted as brainwashing, without stretching the imagination too much?

Edit: You've replied to a post left for someone else.

 

[gettothechopper]

So you wouldn't say those who believe this Alexander Blackman is innocent of any wrongdoing aren't wrong?

Yes, I think people who think Blackman is innocent are wrong

And therefor in context to the colleagues of this guy eventually retiring from their post under the belief their pal Alex didn't do anything wrong, don't have a personality disorder to some degree?

You said "MOST people" before, now you are talking about a couple of people

Obviously veterans who saw their friends being blown up are going to find it difficult to be sympathetic to the rights of the enemy, and are going to be pretty emotional about it - even more reason why rules need to exist and be enforced

Could this not then be interpreted as brainwashing, without stretching the imagination too much?

Erm no? "Brainwashing" implies that as part of training, soldiers are taught that executing unarmed wounded enemy combatants is to be encouraged - I can assure you its quite the opposite.

 

[George Hincapie]

I like the way the DM are going on about the prisoner already being fatally wounded. IMO that makes it worse. He's captured, he's wounded, he's no danger at all, get him medical help. He's not some mangy dog that needs to be put out of his misery, he's a human being ffs.

Who 10 minutes before was trying to kill them. Really, if you haven't got a clue then perhaps best to just shut up.

 

[Bluntwrapped]

Yes, I think people who think Blackman is innocent are wrong

You said "MOST people" before, now you are talking about a couple of people

Obviously veterans who saw their friends being blown up are going to find it difficult to be sympathetic to the rights of the enemy, and are going to be pretty emotional about it - even more reason why rules need to exist and be enforced

Erm no? "Brainwashing" implies that as part of training, soldiers are taught that executing unarmed wounded enemy combatants is to be encouraged - I can assure you its quite the opposite.

Ok, so say 100 soldiers knew this guy during training and later heard about the case against him. How many would you expect to say he was in the wrong when he killed the Afghani? Especially those who served in Afghanistan themselves.

The veterans you mention who witness their friends being blown up will be understandably traumatised, but then does that not raise the question of being there in the first place? Without sounding too sympathetic could this not also apply to the enemy, perhaps our guys blew up his house and killed his wife and children? Something our own guys don't need to worry about being on foreign soil. Their wife and kids are safe and sound at home.

Aren't soldiers trained to hate the enemy and show aggression? If this training removes morality, and the ability to think outside the box, brainwashing or psychological conditioning is fair way of thinking about it?

 

[markonius]

If you look on Twitter you see so many posts in support of him saying he was imprisoned "for doing his duty". It's not the duty of the British Army to murder people they have in their custody. I know they would do the same thing to him, but we have rules about what our armed forces can and can't do, and they pledged to follow those rules. He broke them, and now he's being punished for that decision.

 

[gettothechopper]

Ok, so say 100 soldiers knew this guy during training and later heard about the case against him. How many would you expect to say he was in the wrong when he killed the Afghani? Especially those who served in Afghanistan themselves.

The veterans you mention who witness their friends being blown up will be understandably traumatised, but then does that not raise the question of being there in the first place? Without sounding too sympathetic could this not also apply to the enemy, perhaps our guys blew up his house and killed his wife and children? Something our own guys don't need to worry about being on foreign soil. Their wife and kids are safe and sound at home.

Aren't soldiers trained to hate the enemy and show aggression? If this training removes morality, and the ability to think outside the box, brainwashing or psychological conditioning is fair way of thinking about it?

....nah


markonius has got is right

 

[Yas786]

Who 10 minutes before was trying to kill them. Really, if you haven't got a clue then perhaps best to just shut up.

Lol just lol, yeh he had great success with that because it was a fair fight wasn't it?? What I mean is that he was already injured by gunfire from an apache helicopter. So Blackman and his crew found him whilst on patrol.

Really if you haven't got a clue then it's best to just shut up .

 

[markonius]

Who 10 minutes before was trying to kill them. Really, if you haven't got a clue then perhaps best to just shut up.

Yes, that's what happens in a war. Now, regardless of the fact that he would probably not think twice about killing Blackman in the same situation, the fact is we have certain rules in place for what our soldiers can and can't do. Blackman chose to break those rules and is now being punished for that decision. I'm not going to talk about whether he was justified on some grand philosophical level, he joined an army that specifically forbid him from doing that. He chose to do it anyway, so there are consequences. That's as simple as it is.

 

[gettothechopper]

Yes, that's what happens in a war. Now, regardless of the fact that he would probably not think twice about killing Blackman in the same situation, the fact is we have certain rules in place for what our soldiers can and can't do. Blackman chose to break those rules and is now being punished for that decision. I'm not going to talk about whether he was justified on some grand philosophical level, he joined an army that specifically forbid him from doing that. He chose to do it anyway, so there are consequences. That's as simple as it is.

exactly

 

[Bluntwrapped]

....nah


markonius has got is right

lol I'm not sure exactly why you bothered to take such offence in the first place and try and dismiss what I said.

What he said and what I said were essentially the same thing just I chose to express my personal dislike to military attitude, as it essentially creates extremism on our side, demonstrated by Blackman. He broke the Geneva convention as did his colleagues who stood back and filmed/watched. He should be punished for it as should anyone else involved.

I personally hate my tax money being spent on stupid double standard **** like this. But the reality of it doesn't even scratch the surface.

 

[bainbridge]

He murdered him and showed off while doing so.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

Not that what he did was right at all but, from what I've been told/read J company had a pretty rough tour losing a fair few men. I don't think cases like this should be treated black and white, I sure don't know how I'd hold up, months away from home, losing friends and getting shot at daily.

Edit: I believe that tour 42 Commando lost 7 men with 45 injured for a little context.