UK Speed Limits

[Illgresi]

tl;dr Are the UK speed limits, specifically dual-carriageways and motorways appropriate, too low, or perhaps too high?

I did a brief search (first page...) and couldn't find a thread of this nature. This is more of an exploratory thread to get peoples opinions rather than a vehicle for my own opinion. I'm going to give it anyway...

I want to start by saying I haven't received a ticket, nor have I ever in the five years (since I was 28) I've been driving, so I'm not a disgruntled driver venting. I do however, habitually speed on dual-carriageways and motorways. I respect speed limits of 50 and less, especially in built up areas, for moral reasons. Having looked on the Police (and NPCC) websites, the recommendation that they give drivers + 10% + 2 mph before they ticket, has led to me setting my cruise control for 78 mph on dual carriageways and motorways (traffic permitting).

I have never come close to an accident*. I accept I would probably be considered an intermediate driver at best given my experience, however. So from my fairly limited experience, I feel that the speed limit could be raised to 80 mph.

There's the cliche that the speed limits were introduced when cars took twice the distance to stop than they do now. I may have heard that on Top Gear. It may be fallacious. Perhaps someone with empirical evidence could chime in here? I also accept the argument that driving regulations must be set for the weakest link in the chain.

So before I whitter on anymore than I have already, my question:

Should the national speed limit on dual-carriageways and motorways be increased, or is it fine, or perhaps should it be reduced? What about having different speed limits for different lanes (just a thought, maybe a terrible one given human nature)?

*apart from driving home the other day when I did well to control my car from aquaplaning at 60 mph in terrible conditions. The M80 doesn't have great drainage apparently. Mental note.

 

[rodenal]

They don't honestly bother me - especially considering there aren't really very many traffic police around these days.

Areas where there are currently cameras (average or variable limit or whatever) would never be increased anyway, so those are a fact of life we just need to accept.

When it's quiet and conditions are safe any slight increase in limit would be pretty meaningless (accepting it would never be close to 3 figures) and when conditions are worse the traffic tends to regulate itself / naturally people slow down.

 

[Sin_Chase]

You'll realise most of the larger open/main road speed limits in the UK are not all that bad and for the most part the same/in excess of most European country equivalents.

The annoying thing in the UK is the inconsistency and chop-changing. Most EU countries have very structured approaches to limits and changes whereas the UK has a tendency to throw anything about willy-nilly or in response to the Local Community Speed Groups who complain about a certain stretch of road. In Europe it's very rare you will see a limit outside of the structured limits in-place nationally.

SPECS/Average limits are a very UK thing although Europe does have time restricted limits and other systems in-place. Everyone likes to refer to the Autobahn as if it's a free for all paradise but the reality is, in normal rush-hour/daytime use it's just as congested as other roads and you can't do much more than you could on a UK motorway anyway.

As for limit changes, don't really see the point for what would be a +10-15MPH change at most on the motorways. Are you going to get anywhere faster? Probably not. Stricter enforcement and better education about lane discipline would have a better net effect I believe.

 

[[TW]Fox]

My only real issue is the plethora of 50 limits everywhere. They almost never seen appropriate, it's either a completely normal NSL road that has been spoiled or often it's a road that should perhaps be a 40 even.

Every 50 limit seems either too slow or too fast, never 'just right'.

 

[Illgresi]

As for limit changes, don't really see the point for what would be a +10-15MPH change at most on the motorways. Are you going to get anywhere faster? Probably not.

Well yes, in a simplistic sense. The 87 mile journey I regularly make from Perth to Aberdeen would take 1 hr 24 min at 70 mph, whereas at 80 mph it would take 1 hr 9 min. Of course that doesn't take into account stretches of lower speed limit.

I think the issue is, would a 10 (or whatever) mph increase in speed limit have a substantial effect on road accidents? I would contend that it wouldn't, although I accept that my contention is based on supposition.

I guess my point boils down to the 30 mph speed limits in built up areas. There is a legitimate reason for this, as it has been shown empirically, that pedestrian fatalities increase hugely between 30 and 40 mph. This is due to the fact that above 30 mph, a pedestrian is more likely to be propelled over the car, as opposed to being knocked to the side, or onto the bonnet.

With that in mind, is there a specific reason why the national speed limit is set at 70 mph? Is there empirical evidence that 70 mph is the best balance between speed and safety?

 

[Joe T]

Most of them are just fine.

 

[Orionaut]

As for limit changes, don't really see the point for what would be a +10-15MPH change at most on the motorways. Are you going to get anywhere faster? Probably not. Stricter enforcement and better education about lane discipline would have a better net effect I believe.

The point is that it would give more headroom.

It is a bit like having money in the bank Vs teetering on going overdrawn.

I wouldn't spend any more and nor would I drive any faster really, But in both cases I would feel far more relaxed for not having to worry about OCD speedo checking/checking every penny and would be freer to concentrate on my driving/getting on with life.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Well yes, in a simplistic sense. The 87 mile journey I regularly make from Perth to Aberdeen would take 1 hr 24 min at 70 mph, whereas at 80 mph it would take 1 hr 9 min.

But none of this route is Motorway so a 15mph increase on the Motorway speed limit would save you no time at all?

 

[Finglonga]

The cars can go faster, handle better and stop much quicker. The weakest link is the driver in the car, the driving standards are much lower than they used to be and many idiots are playing with their phone or car is even mirroring their phone on the infotainment screen so they are paying attention to that and not the road. The speed limits are fine as they are iMO except for the 15 and 20mph in some towns put there as people don't pay attention and get knocked over(Darwinism).

 

[Richie]

But none of this route is Motorway so a 15mph increase on the Motorway speed limit would save you no time at all?

He did mention "dual carrigeway" as well in the first line of his OP which, for NSL sections, has the same max speed limit as a Motorway so his point still stands...

tl;dr Are the UK speed limits, specifically dual-carriageways and motorways appropriate, too low, or perhaps too high?

 

[muon]

It's really easy to see if a limit is too high or low.

See what most people drive at where there are no speed cameras in clear traffic.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/63975/circular-01-2013.pdf

Read Point 35 and 36. However, we've moved away from that due to overreactions from pedestrian/cycle safety groups as well as environmental concerns coming into play.

Then we have 20mph limits which no one adheres to and until recently was never enforced.

...the driving standards are much lower than they used to be ...

Any evidence for this or is this based on the incorrect idea that driving tests used to be harder back in your day (or something along those lines).

 

[geekman]

30 limit dual carriageways are the worst, followed closely by VSL motorways set to 40/50 for no apparent reason.

This was a classic one near where I used to live - you can even see the camera van parked in the distance on streetview. 30 limit, and they often used to park the van further back so they'd get people just as the limit changed from 40 to 30. When I knew they were there, I'd hog the outside lane doing 30, was funny to watch people's reactions changing from anger / impatience to putting the window down and thanking me at the next set of traffic lights

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4...Hg!2e0!5s20120601T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

[kindai]

The problem isn't the limits themselves, its the plethora of idiots who dont understand keeping as left as possible.

 

[Rroff]

The cars can go faster, handle better and stop much quicker. The weakest link is the driver in the car, the driving standards are much lower than they used to be and many idiots are playing with their phone or car is even mirroring their phone on the infotainment screen so they are paying attention to that and not the road. The speed limits are fine as they are iMO except for the 15 and 20mph in some towns put there as people don't pay attention and get knocked over(Darwinism).

I dunno about lower but I definitely agree in that why I don't want to see an increase in the limits is due to the average driver standard.

That said, even if a bit idealistic, I don't know why we don't have a core infrastructure for higher speed car movement over longer distances (it seems to work in other countries which have an approximation of that kind of setup).

 

[muon]

I dunno about lower but I definitely agree in that why I don't want to see an increase in the limits is due to the average driver standard.

That said, even if a bit idealistic, I don't know why we don't have a core infrastructure for higher speed car movement over longer distances.

That makes no sense.

These dual carriageways and motorways are the safest roads on the entire network and that has nothing to do with speed.

 

[grudas]

The only speed limit that really bothers me is the 20mph zones they're applying everywhere.

They don't regulate them with speed cameras but use speed calming measures like speed bumps, road narrowings etc. The issue is if you're sitting at 20 you'll have people pulling crazy manuevers behind you because they don't care about trashing their cars over speedbumps etc and most end up doing 30 anyway. Literally the most pointless thing I have seen here.

 

[Nasher]

I think they pander way to much to the safety crowd in this country, a lot of those people don't even drive. Not all of the responsibility on the road lies with the drivers. But speeds on motorways should be higher after a certain time I think.

The "traffic calming" stuff is dumb, I don't see how forcing traffic to drive closer together and swerve between bollards etc makes it safer.

 

[Orionaut]

It's really easy to see if a limit is too high or low.

See what most people drive at where there are no speed cameras in clear traffic.

The traditional rule was to set the limit at the 85%ile of what the free flowing traffic would otherwise choose.

This figure was also found to correspond with the lowest accident rates

 

[Rroff]

That makes no sense.

These dual carriageways and motorways are the safest roads on the entire network and that has nothing to do with speed.

What makes no sense? I'm saying even if a bit idealistic I'd like to see something like the M6 toll rolled out wider, with more relaxed speed limits and without slower traffic mixed in.

 

[Nasher]

What makes no sense? I'm saying even if a bit idealistic I'd like to see something like the M6 toll rolled out wider, with more relaxed speed limits and without slower traffic mixed in.

But the toll road doesn't work, most people actively avoid it because it's to expensive to keep using.