Titanic sinking theory

The unsinkable claim supposedly only done the rounds after it sunk, probably some newspaper coined it just to sell more copies.

The unsinkable claim came from an article about the Olympic class liners (of which Titanic was #2) in the Shipbuilder magazine prior to her launch where they described her watertight compartment design making her practically unsinkable, much as the media do today, the press got hold of this and decided to omit the "practically" part.

She was sinkable, of course, but nobody envisaged a collision serious enough to damage her enough to send her down hence the untruth stuck.

I'm not saying their wasn't a fire, as Jokester has said, it wasn't uncommon. But was that enough to make any difference to the 300ft of hull damage and breach of six compartments? No, of course not and that's why the official enquiry wasn't concerned about it.

300ft of damage is another myth, such an opening in her hull would have sank her in minutes, not nearly three hours, whilst the iceberg indeed scraped along 300ft of her hull. Edward Wilding - who was the chief naval architect for Harland and Wolff testified at the enquiry into the sinking that the iceberg only opened an area of roughly 12sq feet which caused a relatively slow initial rate of flooding, as the ship sank lower the rate increased as water reached open portholes, anchor chain openings and open gangway doors, once the forecastle dipped under the rate increases again as water is now entering from above deck as well as below.

The iceberg the Titanic struck was full of rocks and it was the hard jagged stones that were encased in ice that cut through the hull which was held together by rivets that done the damage. Any fire that was ongoing wouldn't have made a material difference to the ships fate.

The iceberg didn't cut or tear the ships side, it merely caused seams between the hull plates to open, the water pressure at the depth the damage occurred then forced seawater through these open seams causing the flooding.

However they had to keep filling the engines with coal because it was on fire which meant the Titanic was doing full speed when they were told to slow down because of icebergs.
The speed did have an effect on the damage.

Titanic was planned to have a full speed run on the day after she sank and the crew were lighting the remainder of her 29 boilers (as not all were in use at the time of the collision) ready for the speed run the following day.

Well no, the speed was probably because Captain Smith was unofficially going for a record. It was nothing to do with the fire which had been extinguished before the iceberg strike.

There was no record the Titanic could beat, she wasn't fast enough to attain the Blue Ribband nor ran in enough to match her sister ship Olympic. Also,she was taking a longer and more southerly course (to avoid ice ironically) and as I say above, she wasn't using all of her boilers for the first part of the voyage as the engineers bedded in the engines.
Your picture refers to it as an "american liner".
It was built in belfast, registered in liverpool and owned by a british company. Was it considered American?

The Titanic was in actual fact an American owned but British registered and operated vessel.

John Pierpont (JP) Morgan. American financier and founding owner of the International Mercantile Marine Company. (IMMC) This company was the controlling trust and retaining ownership of the White Star Line, Red Star Line, Dominion Line, American Transport Line, and the Leyland Line. Although Titanic was actually an American owned vessel, Morgan kept the ships of his trust under British registry with British crews. This was in order to escape being accused of violating the American Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890.

its well accepted here in Belfast that the names were changed

Factual evidence proves the Belfast rumour mill to be wrong though, it is a cast iron fact that if you journey to the White Swan Hotel in Alnwick, Northumberland you'll find all of Olympics first class interior trim and panelling along with fireplaces and staircases which were taken from the ship when it was scrapped in the 1930's, all these pieces have its ship yard number "400" stamped on them because that's the ship they were made for, Titanic was yard number 401 and artefacts raised from the Titanic wreck site have that number - 401 - also.

The switch conspiracy is utterly disproved by factual evidence you can plainly see to this day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Swan_Hotel,_Alnwick

The show was interesting but ultimately flogging a dead horse imo, she was designed to float with upto four compartments open to the sea, she was holed in six and there's evidence that boiler room 4 (7th compartment) was flooding early in the sinking, its probable that the bulkhead between the 5th and 6th compartment failed as the ship sank but a bulkhead failing in a sinking scenario is nothing unusual, nor was a coal powered ship having a bunker fire anything out of the ordinary.


The Titanic was a well designed and well built ship of her time, she suffered an almost unique accident - side swiping an iceberg- it is argued by some that had Captain Smith actually been on the bridge when the iceberg was first spotted he would have allowed the ship to hit the berg head on, she was designed to withstand such an impact (which is why the highest bulkhead in the ship was the forward "collision bulkhead" for this very event) and a golden rule of the sea is to never expose your broadside to danger as by definition your exposing a larger area of the hull to potential damage increasing the risk of flooding which any ships master would want to avoid at any cost, that said, human nature would surely suggest he'd have tried to avoid ramming his company's flagship into an iceberg on her maiden voyage, especially with the chairman of the line on board!!

He would have known such a head on impact would have caused massive damage and killed many crew and passengers who were berthed in the front of the ship, plus, of course, like many of the time, he believed the ship practically unsinkable. I think it unlikely in truth he'd have done anything other than the actions of First Officer Murdoch who tried to avoid a collision.

Ultimately, Channel 4 or whoever will continue to spout theories about the Titanic disaster, she ultimately sank because she hit an iceberg but her watertight bulkheads only went as high as E deck (about 14ft above the waterline) in the engineering areas of the ship, as the weight of the water in the bow pulled her down the compartments overflowed much like filling an ice cube tray from one end.

The fire theory imo is a Red Herring, her die was cast, she was holed enough to sink regardless of the fire and any damage it caused.

Had the bulkheads been higher or not supposedly affected by fire it's still highly unlikely she could have floated long enough for rescue to arrive ,as I alluded to earlier, failing bulkheads are common in sinkings, taller bulkheads just hold back more weight of water and are therefore more likely to fail and then you add to this the fact that she ultimately sank having broken in half due to the sheer weight of floodwater in her bows and the huge weight of her stern being lifted out of the water. She snapped in two under conditions of hull stress that she simply wasn't designed to withstand,whilst higher bulkheads may have slowed the rate of flooding she'd have still broken her back and sunk, as she did.

Apologies for the wall of text but if you check my profile you'll see I have more than a passing interest in this old tub.
 
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What about the use of inferior steel? I was half-asleep when watching the documentary, but i believe they brushed over the fact that White Star Line was trying to cut a few corners when it come to saving money.

I appreciate that the fire *may* have weakened the steel, but this became irrelevant when the iceberg punctured 6 compartments.

However if a higher grade of steel was used, could that have potentially withstood the piercing from the iceberg, or maybe even reduced the number of compartments that were punctured.
 
What about the use of inferior steel? I was half-asleep when watching the documentary, but i believe they brushed over the fact that White Star Line was trying to cut a few corners when it come to saving money.

I appreciate that the fire *may* have weakened the steel, but this became irrelevant when the iceberg punctured 6 compartments.

However if a higher grade of steel was used, could that have potentially withstood the piercing from the iceberg, or maybe even reduced the number of compartments that were punctured.
Quest had a doc last night about the titanic which covered the point about the quality of steel, it may be available on catchup. But basically it was the best available for the time, though very brittle compared to modern shipping grade steel at temps experienced by the Titanic.

Heres a link to a scientific article about the steel quality.
 
how did these coal bunker fires start, i thought the fires in the boilers would have been fairly well back from the openiings, never mind the piles of fuel?
 
What about the use of inferior steel? I was half-asleep when watching the documentary, but i believe they brushed over the fact that White Star Line was trying to cut a few corners when it come to saving money.

I appreciate that the fire *may* have weakened the steel, but this became irrelevant when the iceberg punctured 6 compartments.

However if a higher grade of steel was used, could that have potentially withstood the piercing from the iceberg, or maybe even reduced the number of compartments that were punctured.

Refer to my (overly long, I admit) post above, the iceberg didn't puncture the steel more it caused rivets to pop and seams in between the plates to open, Titanic was built on a "cost plus"basis, basically what the building costs were plus a profit margin which was rather generous to Harland & Wolff, basically the more money they spent on construction the more profit they made! And whilst compared to modern steel it was arguably brittle, remember her sister ship Olympic served into the 1930's and at the time of her scrapping she was still structurally sound.

Olympic also rammed and sank a U boat in her career and also rammed and sank a light ship outside New York in dense fog,neither event ruptured the hull.

She also survived being rammed herself by HMS Hawke in the Channel, a WW1 era warship that had bows designed specifically to ram and sink enemy ships, again, she survived this (albeit damaged) and made it back to port under her own steam.

It's a commonly held perception that the Olympic class ships were poorly built and substandard, they were anything but.
 
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Refer to my (overly long, I admit) post above, the iceberg didn't puncture the steel more it caused rivets to pop and seams in between the plates to open, Titanic was built on a "cost plus"basis, basically what the building costs were plus a profit margin which was rather generous to Harland & Wolff, whilst compared to modern steel it was arguably brittle, remember her sister ship Olympic served into the 1930's and at the time of her scrapping she was still structurally sound.

Olympic also rammed and sank a U boat in her career and also rammed and sank a light ship outside New York in dense fog,neither event ruptured the hull.

She also survived being rammed herself by HMS Hawke in the Channel, a WW1 era warship that had bows designed specifically to ram and sink enemy ships, again, she survived this (albeit damaged) and made it back to port under her own steam.

It's a commonly held perception that the Olympic class ships were poorly built and substandard, they were anything but.

Exactly, people seem to miss this. The White Star Line just got incredibly unlucky with the Olympic-class ships. It is a shame that the Olympic (nick-named "Old Reliable") was not preserved.

Coal fires being left going is not new evidence. It has been out there for years and is thought to be incredibly unlikely to have anything to do with the sinking, certainly not weakening the structure of the ship.

I need to watch this documentary though, as maybe new coal fires have been brought to light, still doubt they affected the ship's structure though.
 
the iceberg didn't puncture the steel more it caused rivets to pop and seams in between the plates to open
I remember seeing a documentary ages ago where they looked at the logs/receipts/etc from construction and made a big thing about the rivets being substandard compared to those actually specified in the ships plans (also inserted by hand not machine, though as the same was done on Olympic I doubt that was relevant). I very much doubt it would have made a difference though.


Olympic also rammed and sank a U boat in her career and also rammed and sank a light ship outside New York in dense fog,neither event ruptured the hull.

She also survived being rammed herself by HMS Hawke in the Channel, a WW1 era warship that had bows designed specifically to ram and sink enemy ships, again, she survived this (albeit damaged) and made it back to port under her own steam.

It's a commonly held perception that the Olympic class ships were poorly built and substandard, they were anything but.
IIRC the only reason Britannic sank after striking a mine (designed to stop a battleship) was because the crew had left all the portholes open despite regulation.
 
I remember seeing a documentary ages ago where they looked at the logs/receipts/etc from construction and made a big thing about the rivets being substandard compared to those actually specified in the ships plans (also inserted by hand not machine, though as the same was done on Olympic I doubt that was relevant). I very much doubt it would have made a difference though.

A lot of rivets were hammered in by hand due to parts of the hull being curved (the stern area, propeller areas, lower bow etc) the steam powered riveting machines couldn't access these areas hence the need for hand riveting.

As for the quality of the rivets, you'll find some fascinating insight into that aspect (and hours of other stuff to digest) here...

http://marconigraph.com/titanic/


IIRC the only reason Britannic sank after striking a mine (designed to stop a battleship) was because the crew had left all the portholes open despite regulation.

Absolutely spot on.
Britannic had all the design flaws learned from the Titanics loss and the operation of Olympic ironed out, she was built to withstand far more damage than Titanic sustained, as you say though, she was sunk by military means - something no civilian ship is engineered for - and of course she was built for the North Atlantic but was serving as a troop ship in the Mediterranean, it would have been stifling on board and its documented that the medical staff opened portholes to ventilate the wards, as you say against wartime regulations.

Also, I've seen a documentary about Britannic where divers went into the boiler rooms and found a critical water tight door was still open, it appears the explosion of the mine distorted the bulkhead and prevented the door from closing.

Incidentally Britannic sank much quicker than Titanic because she had a much larger opening in her hull (plus the open portholes) which massively accelerated the rate of flooding.
 
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IIRC the only reason Britannic sank after striking a mine (designed to stop a battleship) was because the crew had left all the portholes open despite regulation.

Yeah I read this too.

30 people died when the Britannic sank, partially due to the lessons learned from the Titanic (and the fact it wasn't quite as cold), many of them being on a Lifeboat that was sucked into a rising Propeller blade, a survivor of that also being a survivor of the Titanic. :eek:
 
a survivor of that also being a survivor of the Titanic. :eek:

Violet Jessop.
She was on board Olympic when it was hit by HMS Hawke, Titanic when it hit the iceberg and Britannic when it hit a mine.

Maybe she attracted danger.... :D

A very good book about her here, she doesn't describe the Olympic incident but her description of the Titanic disaster (and how blasé the crew were to the thought of her sinking) is interesting.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/684897.Titanic_Survivor
 
I'm amazed by how many titanic afficiandos we have on here. I always did wonder the reasoning behind the purported switch - at least I understand the 'logic' of the conspiracy.

Titanic - serious business. Even on a computer forum :p
 
I wonder if she'd ever got back on a boat after those 3!

It's like laughing in the face of death.

I'd turn that around and ask if she was blacklisted from ever going on a ship again. She's obviously not good for their health!:p
 
Watched it last night, was still interesting hearing another thoery.

Was a little disappointed they didn't specifically discuss what the marks where on the outer hull, I assume physical signs of the intensity of the fire in the coal bunker.
 
Scania said:
Violet Jessop.
She was on board Olympic when it was hit by HMS Hawke, Titanic when it hit the iceberg and Britannic when it hit a mine.

Blimey, did not realize she was on the Olympic too, she really was bad luck!

I'm amazed by how many titanic afficiandos we have on here. I always did wonder the reasoning behind the purported switch - at least I understand the 'logic' of the conspiracy.

Titanic - serious business. Even on a computer forum :p

The logic makes sense, which is why the conspiracy theory still has traction. But the evidence of the ship at the bottom of the sea shows that it really is the Titanic. It would make a good book of fiction though or a film.

I still find the Titanic a fascinating subject. :D
 
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/9801/felkins-9801.html

An article on the metal used in the titanic for those interested.

The steel used in constructing the RMS Titanic was probably the best plain carbon ship plate available in the period of 1909 to 1911, but it would not be acceptable at the present time for any construction purposes and particularly not for ship construction. Whether a ship constructed of modern steel would have suffered as much damage as the Titanic in a similar accident seems problematic. Navigational aides exist now that did not exist in 1912; hence, icebergs would be sighted at a much greater distance, allowing more time for evasive action. If the Titanic had not collided with the iceberg, it could have had a career of more than 20 years as the Olympic had. It was built of similar steel, in the same shipyard, and from the same design. The only difference was a big iceberg.

Puts the 'they used cheap crap steal' argument to bed, they used the best available at the time...
 
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