RMT to ballot for strike action.

Caged · 7 Jan 2017 at 13:52

Hades said:
I work from home quite often due to childcare. I far prefer being in the office and I find I'm more productive because of the work environment there. However most of my team are in various parts of the world so even if I was in work I'd be on the phone/email/instant chat/screen sharing with them anyway. Working from home is a nice option to have.

It's about getting a balance. I wouldn't want to be 100% home based as I'd go insane, but a couple of days a week in the office and a few days WFH is a good balance to strike.

Hades said:
It just occurred to me; whats to stop a black cab also signing up to Uber and driving for them if the rate exceeds black cab rates?

Presumably the licensing and the agreement to have regulated fares that comes with that. I haven't looked into it too closely though.

delta0 · 7 Jan 2017 at 17:34

Even though zone 1 stations within the circle line are closed will the tube still go through zone 1 to the other side?

Terminal_Boy · 7 Jan 2017 at 17:47

Caged said:
Does anybody calling for full automation of the entire system genuinely believe that it's possible? As in possible to get to a point where there is no reliance at any part of the system on people who may go on strike?

Because it's not just driving of trains that you'd need to automate - even the DLR needs supervisors on board, if they aren't there then the service doesn't run.

Not only is it possible, those clever chaps at Siemens can sell you an entire underground system devoid of humans outside of a central control room.

Caged · 7 Jan 2017 at 17:49

Cool, what's the cost of retrofitting it to a system designed with none of that in mind? And how does it run if the control room staff go on strike?

Terminal_Boy · 7 Jan 2017 at 17:53

Caged said:
Cool, what's the cost of retrofitting it to a system designed with none of that in mind? And how does it run if the control room staff go on strike?

Probably a trillionty pounds, so it's not going to happen.

In German train systems, striking Germans are replaced by Gastarbeitung.

FutileBreadMachine · 7 Jan 2017 at 18:01

b0rn2sk8 said:
Imagine if you had to get southern in to London and then a tube to work. Your life would be hell.

I do this

Going to be a nightmare on Monday. I plan on taking the Southern service to Victoria then a bus to work. The buses are going to be heaving.

robgmun · 7 Jan 2017 at 18:04

Caged said:
Does anybody calling for full automation of the entire system genuinely believe that it's possible? As in possible to get to a point where there is no reliance at any part of the system on people who may go on strike?

Because it's not just driving of trains that you'd need to automate - even the DLR needs supervisors on board, if they aren't there then the service doesn't run.

It works in so many cities in the world without issue. I don't see why it won't work in London

Caged · 7 Jan 2017 at 18:08

What cities run an underground without human involvement?

robgmun · 7 Jan 2017 at 18:23

I don't remember seeing anyone when using the Toyko or Paris undergrounds. Ran just fine

Mikeyboy · 7 Jan 2017 at 18:26

Caged said:
Cool, what's the cost of retrofitting it to a system designed with none of that in mind? And how does it run if the control room staff go on strike?

The system currently being installed on the Metropolitan, Circle, H&C and District Lines (which is capable of fully automatic driverless operation, but that part of the system will not be utilised) is costing £760m.

Caged · 7 Jan 2017 at 18:32

I understand that trains can be driverless - my point was that people are getting confused between driverless trains and a system that wouldn't be affected by strikes.

Buckster · 7 Jan 2017 at 18:40

less people in the loop - less chance of a strike

I'm glad this strike is ONLY about safety though

lol ....

Mikeyboy · 7 Jan 2017 at 18:44

Caged said:
I understand that trains can be driverless - my point was that people are getting confused between driverless trains and a system that wouldn't be affected by strikes.

I doubt there will ever be a system that won't need human intervention/supervision to some degree, at least not in my lifetime.

There are ways of preventing people from going on strike (contractually for example) but that wouldn't stop an illegal strike. There would have to be a backup in place to replace any staff at the drop of a hat, ad infinitum.

Buckster · 7 Jan 2017 at 18:49

I don't get striking - if I didn't like a change of terms I'd have to make the difficult decision whether to agree to them - even if it meant changes - or find another job

if the company I worked for suddenly said - you'll now have to work overnight instead of during the day, or that I had to move location - I'd have to choose whether I still wanted the job or whether I'd leave and try and find something else

striking would never even cross my mind

StriderX · 7 Jan 2017 at 18:49

Just lo-key hire some gangsters to beat up the strikers, probably worked in the past.

Caged · 7 Jan 2017 at 19:50

Buckster said:
I don't get striking - if I didn't like a change of terms I'd have to make the difficult decision whether to agree to them - even if it meant changes - or find another job

if the company I worked for suddenly said - you'll now have to work overnight instead of during the day, or that I had to move location - I'd have to choose whether I still wanted the job or whether I'd leave and try and find something else

striking would never even cross my mind

That's fine where you have choices of where to go. A lot of the heavily unionised workforces don't have that choice - a change of job necessitates a career change and dropping to the bottom of the ladder again. So I can see why people are keen to fight back.

It's not like a train driver operating a particular class and on specific routes can walk into an equivalent role within a few weeks of deciding they dislike their current employer.

Granted this applies less to station staff roles, but it's likely that any change of employment for them would come with a large drop in earnings and benefits, so it's worth fighting for if that option exists.

Em3bbs · 7 Jan 2017 at 19:57

Caged said:
Granted this applies less to station staff roles, but it's likely that any change of employment for them would come with a large drop in earnings and benefits, so it's worth fighting for if that option exists.

No ****. Who would ever have thought that being a glorified cinema usher wasn't worth the tax money we're paying.

StriderX · 7 Jan 2017 at 20:05

With the train stations the way they are now, you could breeze through with the auto-ticketing machines and the barriers, yet we still need drivers seemingly to make it "safe"... didn't make those Croydon folk safe though.

Scam · 7 Jan 2017 at 20:20

Caged said:
Does anybody calling for full automation of the entire system genuinely believe that it's possible? As in possible to get to a point where there is no reliance at any part of the system on people who may go on strike?

Because it's not just driving of trains that you'd need to automate - even the DLR needs supervisors on board, if they aren't there then the service doesn't run.

The people on the DLR are probably there because the union's insisted. Here, have a gander at this list. Yeah, automated trains, what a pipedream: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

You do realise drivers on the Victoria line get paid over £40k to open the doors?

Harlequin · 7 Jan 2017 at 20:32

most of the underground is grade 2 automated operation already - that is , the drivers presses a button to open/shut the doors , but the actual driving of the train is automatic; but can be driven manually and the driver is there for unexpected issues as the trains are quite old.

DLR is a grade 3 , the crew member opens and shuts the doors but has no control of the driving.

Gatwick and Stansted airports have grade 4 - fully automatic operations