Cartax - about time.

Tute · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:04

helpimcrap said:
I don't agree on the extra tax for £40k+ but I do agree on charging every vehicle. To charge nothing was insane and really wound me up because every car contributes to it all.

It's a long way to go before we pay nothing given that even beyond this system there's still what... 80ish pence a litre in duty going to the treasury?

It just seems like rolling it into fuel duty is the fairest whilst still covering all the bases that the government wants to cover - i.e it will encourage a new wave of fuel-efficient vehicles in order to minimise fuel cost, which will in turn benefit the environment.

Nasher · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:05

Hmm, is it possible to re-register a old car with a 2017 plate? I could get cheaper tax lol

And does it mean the current tax prices will be frozen?

I can see a lot of cars that were around 40k now being sold for £39.9k though.

SDK^ · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:10

Scottland said:
I'm looking at ordering something at the moment, and post April I'll get a ~£500 "showroom tax", then £140 a year. Whereas at the moment it's £270 a year. What's the point?

I was looking at leasing an E-Class Estate AMG E220d after April, the RRP is £40,725 which will mean I have pay an extra £26 per month more to the government for the £40k threshold and another £11 for the new CO2 bands.

Scottland · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:11

SDK^ said:
I was looking at leasing an E-Class Estate AMG C220d after April, the RRP is £40,725 which will mean I have pay an extra £26 per month more to the government.

You'll need to check with the leasing agent/broker - but from what I've been led to believe it will be added to the monthly as VED is usually included in the lease cost.

[TW]Fox · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:12

SDK^ said:
I was looking at leasing an E-Class Estate AMG C220d after April, the RRP is £40,725 which will mean I have pay an extra £26 per month more to the government.

The C220d is a C Class, not an E Class and technically you won't pay anything to the government as it'll be rolled into the price of the lease

Nasher · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:17

I think this is going to put a stopper on the whole v8 with a AA battery attached to it, to make a zero tax "low emissions hybrid" game

SDK^ · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:18

[TW]Fox;30409554 said:
The C220d is a C Class, not an E Class and technically you won't pay anything to the government as it'll be rolled into the price of the lease

You know what I meant
Post edited

Scottland · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:21

Nasher said:
I think this is going to put a stopper on the whole v8 with a AA battery attached to it, to make a zero tax "low emissions hybrid" game

Thing is, it doesn't encourage people to get a lower emissions car (with the exception of fully electric/hydrogen cell cars under 40k). And it doesn't impose any incentives for the car makers to lower overall emissions as the customers are footing the bill.

I know it's not as easy as sticking 10p a litre on fuel; but on the face of it, it would seem to be the fairer way to apply the levy.

Nasher · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:22

But fuel is already crazy expensive and upping it even more only means paying more for everything else (since everything is moved around by lorry), so people are still going to want cars with good mpg. Which rules out most larger and more polluting engines for daily commuting. Also there are already targets for emissions imposed on the manufacturers.

The switch to low/zero emission engines needs a lot more time, they can't force it.

But this does mean that current used 0 tax cars are about to rocket in price lol. If you have a garage, buy a good one now, store and sell in about 5 years time

Scottland · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:29

Nasher said:
But fuel is already crazy expensive and upping it even more only means paying more for everything else (since everything is moved around by lorry), so people are still going to want cars with 30+mpg at least. Which rules out most larger and more polluting engines. Also there are already targets for emissions imposed on the manufacturers.

Hence me saying I know it's not as simple as sticking 10p on a litre

But as others have already stated, based purely on emissions why should a diesel rep-mobile doing 60k miles a year not pay more VED than a V8 who only comes out on sunny days and does <5k a year?

There must be a "fairer" system that most people could at least rationalise.

Nasher said:
The switch to low/zero emission cars needs a lot more time, they can't force it.

No it needs much more development, but as it stands a zero emission Tesla will still get hit with the £310 showroom tax.

chaparral · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:48

Scottland said:
I know it's not as easy as sticking 10p a litre on fuel; but on the face of it, it would seem to be the fairer way to apply the levy.

It no good putting fuel prices up

As that would just push more people into electric & hybrid cars which would mean less money going into the Treasury pockets...

And · 16 Jan 2017 at 20:50

More investment in the scientific and research community would be a start for which the government has to play its part. And maybe the government should set an example, instead of the big (petrol?) Jag for the short hop from No10 to Westminster, they use an electric one like the I-Pace.

Rainagul · 16 Jan 2017 at 21:02

I'm glad to be driving my old toyota ****box for once

Nasher · 16 Jan 2017 at 22:25

And said:
More investment in the scientific and research community would be a start for which the government has to play its part. And maybe the government should set an example, instead of the big (petrol?) Jag for the short hop from No10 to Westminster, they use an electric one like the I-Pace.

That car isn't just a Jag, it's a tank shaped like a Jag and weighs nearly 4 tonnes. It's bullet and bomb proof

We can't have the PM driving around in a G-wiz, what kind of image does that set lol

Haggisman · 17 Jan 2017 at 08:30

Armageus said:
I might be blind but didn't see where it mentioned options or what constitutes the price band. Presumably it's more likely to be based on models/engines list price rather than every single option / purchase price e.g did you spec metallic paint and upgraded wheels.

Scottland said:
As far as I'm aware it's based on RRP before discounts including any options spec'd. So if you spec a 41k car but get 10k in discounts, you'll still be stung with the tax hike.

Correct.

The £40k is defined as the list price of the vehicle at the point of sale including any factory options (but not dealer accessories). So a £39k car with £2k worth of options would incur the premium, but a £39,999 car with some free mats thrown in by the dealer wouldn't

ubersonic · 17 Jan 2017 at 08:49

~Divine~Wind~ said:
I fail to see how this helps other than hammer those buying new cars

That's kind of the point, it hammers those buying new cars (and the amount of hammering depends on how environmentally unfriendly it is) plus it further hammers those buying expensive cars, and at the same time it cuts prices for those buying used cars.

They are basically charging the poor less and the rich more, shockingly un-tory lol.

[TW]Fox · 17 Jan 2017 at 08:53

Haggisman said:
Correct.

The £40k is defined as the list price of the vehicle at the point of sale including any factory options (but not dealer accessories). So a £39k car with £2k worth of options would incur the premium, but a £39,999 car with some free mats thrown in by the dealer wouldn't

Which is frustrating as list price often bears little resemblance to purchase price.

Nasher · 17 Jan 2017 at 09:57

What's to stop them listing everything under 40k, then telling the dealers to add a fixed premium/markup to the sale price?

[TW]Fox · 17 Jan 2017 at 10:04

Nasher said:
What's to stop them listing everything under 40k, then telling the dealers to add a fixed premium/markup to the sale price?

Seriously?

Nasher · 17 Jan 2017 at 10:08

"List price" is only RRP, it can be more or less. But that is what the tax is based on.