Do you change oil every 5,000 miles?

[Jonnycoupe]

#endgame

Can't remember where he said that, but in any case I don't think he needs anybody in here to do the talking for him.
I am taking as an example the drug industry so not having that data available for something that is nowhere close as important (engine oil vs drugs used in humans) is not obvious unless you have a better explanation.

Theres public interest in drug data, unless we wants lots of elephant men during testing again (2006), oil data.... not so relevant to the public, let alone interesting!

 

[Simon]

#endgame
Theres public interest in druge data, unless we wants lots of elephant men during testing again (2006), oil data.... not so relevant to the public.

Have you seen the test data for the Effiel tower? I can't find it so they must be hiding something.

 

[c1tro]

Thanks for the info. Applicable to your vehicle only but still that is what you need.
Just a note - you are ignoring the fact that generating data for a drug used in humans can be as expensive but that data is available to the public so your argument doesn't have any basis. Have you actually seen/generated any of that data?

#endgame
oil data.... not so relevant to the public, let alone interesting!

Really? Doesn't oil have anything to do with emissions?

 

[Orionaut]

A number of points, not in any particular order.

Like performance, manufacturers have many compromises and targets to make when deciding oil service intervals.

So, for example, if extra oil changes means the difference between an engine lasting a million miles or only half a million, they will not be bothered because they will not be expecting (or wanting) you to achieve either.

Similarly, there is a green agenda here. Less frequent oil changes means less waste oil to deal with. At the cheap end of the market. manufacturers are pushing extended services along with reduced sump capacities. (The Horror!) Each litre of oil reduced=1Kg kerb weight and incremental weight reduction has been pushed hard over the last 10 years. Perhaps the change in taxation might move mover manufacturers away from this unfortunate trend.

(the vauxhall/Fiat 1.3 diesels have little more than 3 litres and extended service intervals. I have seen quite a few failures over the years the French ford 1.6TD's are very prone to catastrophic failure too)

From a marketing POV, A good proportion of new cars go to fleets. All a fleet buyer wants is something that can last 3 years without having to do anything with it. Of course fleet buyers are going to be more attracted to vehicles with (Claimed/recommended) extended service intervals. As long as the machine lasts 60-70,000 miles they do not care about what happens 5 or 6 years down the line when the car is on its 2nd ot 3rd owner.

Any manufacturer who posts 12,000 service intervals in the fleet market with everybody else posting 20,000 is basically not going to sell any cars.

I could give more examples, but the gist is that recommended service intervals are more about what the manufacturers can get away with. Not what is best for the longevity of the machine. (Though I would, for instance, be more inclined to trust the recommendations of a niche manufacturer like BMW rather than those of a Fleet Tart company like Ford/GM/VAG)

For me, 12 months, 12,000 miles.

On any modern TD I would argue, do it twice as often as it says in the book and you will be fine.

 

[233]

small taxi fleet owner here,
all ours are 10k service intervals never had a problem at that (last Mondeo was well north of 320k miles without any issues)
that said for us 10k miles is 5-6 weeks some times, biggest thing is quality of oil rather than interval

 

[c1tro]

Viscosity has dropped from 13.2 to 12.6, TBN of this oil is down from ~10 to 6.19 and TAN up to 3.9

Do you have the moisture analysis report by any chance?

@Orionaut I agree with all your points. Glad that common sense prevails. My only reservation is trusting blindly whatever the manufacturer recommends especially after the recent VW scandal.

Have you seen the test data for the Effiel tower? I can't find it so they must be hiding something.

Clearly you haven't searched enough. Google is your friend

 

[Simon]

Thanks for the info. Applicable to your vehicle only but still that is what you need.
Just a note - you are ignoring the fact that generating data for a drug used in humans can be as expensive but that data is available to the public so your argument doesn't have any basis. Have you actually seen/generated any of that data?

Its just one car, I have millions of km of data which basically is doing the same and showing why. 1,6million km from 3 years in just Moscow city centre. Beyond this the OEMs have their own tests (eg BMWs is ~300hrs to accelerated and replicate the drain interval) This test is €100k+ and you wont find any data on it in the public domain. Its a very competitive industry and no one would share actual data as it makes comparative marketing claims very easy!

Lets see : Lower drains better for oil companies and OEMs to make more money. Its only in the owners interest to run them longer and the environment (less waste oil). Quite why you think you know better is unknown to me.

 

[Simon]

Do you have the moisture analysis report by any chance?

You mean water content? already said its below 50ppm.

You need to look at all the factors to decide if the oil is dead - I just gave one example. For proper comparison of oils I have run several cars (on two different oils) with paid drivers following each other (every day the lead car moves to the back) on 15k mile drains with full engine strip downs which still look very good at the end. Infact the engines were put back together and the cars carried on running at the end.

I am very sure no oil is dead at 5000miles in the UK.

 

[c1tro]

You mean water content? already said its below 50ppm.

You need to look at all the factors to decide if the oil is dead - I just gave one example. For proper comparison of oils I have run several cars (on two different oils) with paid drivers following each other (every day the lead car moves to the back) on 15k mile drains with full engine strip downs which still look very good at the end. Infact the engines were put back together and the cars carried on running at the end.

I am very sure no oil is dead at 5000miles in the UK.

Well you didn't say what the actual number was for the water content and as you know cut-offs vary. You admitted driving quite hard and revving high a petrol engine which is very much the opposite of a low rev diesel doing short runs in my case. I would think that makes a difference doesn't it?

 

[Simon]

I just gave my example and why for my car AND the hundreds of others ive never seen any reason for 5000mile drains. Why are you trying to pick holes in it? Sure it runs hotter but then if im interested in high temperature effect on oil then its relevant.

Now you are making assumption in your own car using a single data-point- in your case I'd be more worried about bio diesel accumulation than water. However you wont get that measure very easily

 

[Firestar_3x]

I'd just leave it now tbh, OP is clearly deluded, has only signed up very recently, thinks he knows best, remind you of anyone?

 

[Simon]

Reminds me of too many unfortunately.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Thanks for the info. Applicable to your vehicle only but still that is what you need.
Just a note - you are ignoring the fact that generating data for a drug used in humans can be as expensive but that data is available to the public so your argument doesn't have any basis. Have you actually seen/generated any of that data?


Really? Doesn't oil have anything to do with emissions?

As in NEDC numbers or the shift to WTLP. Yes, the whole powertrain does. Those figures are published in a joe public manner. Infact its a similar system to washing machines and housing energy reports in front of the car in the showroom!

Are you that oilman guy in disguise?

The point you are trying to make? I don't really understand it.

Have you got an data on tyre chemistry for us aswell to account for the effect on emissions, cos data on people is in the public domain and that's far more important than tyre rubber....I think you have been sniffing too much of that glue.

 

[c1tro]

Doesn't take much to find that information but i am sure you can manage to use google

If you can't get my point or Orionaut's then I am sorry but can't help much more.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

what point are you trying to make here?

nobody should be changing their oil every 5,000 miles unless they only do 5,000 miles a year. it would be pointless.

every year or 20,000 miles whichever comes soonest is more than enough. I doubt many do over 20K a year in their own car either so they don't care if their business car dies early and by early i mean within 15 years instead of 20.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Doesn't take much to find that information but i am sure you can manage to use google

If you can't get my point or Orionaut's then I am sorry but can't help much more.

You can't help much more as you weren't helping in the first place; to then pretend you can add to it.

 

[muon]

Haven't seen anything yet, or is this data a well kept secret?
I think Simon is in a better place to reply here and confirm whether he has access to this data and enlighten us.

Why would the data be posted?

This isn't medicine where it has to pass a million regulations and safety tests.

When is the last time you've seen empirical test data published for most car components? Almost always left to third party reviewers to do and even then most things aren't tested that thouroughly.

 

[c1tro]

This isn't medicine where it has to pass a million regulations and safety tests.

Yeah right. Lets get the car on the street without any safety tests. There are no safety regulations. Which country do you live in and what century?

 

[c1tro]

You can't help much more as you weren't helping in the first place; to then pretend you can add to it.

I am sorry you feel disappointed.

 

[Armageus]

I think this thread has run it's course