Are you proud to be British / European?

Cromulent · 23 Feb 2017 at 10:50

[FnG]magnolia said:
It's the word 'proud' I have an issue with.

I'm proud of my parents and my sisters. I didn't achieve what they did but I'm still proud to be associated with them. I feel the same way about the United Kingdom and Europe. I haven't done anything particularly amazing in my life but I am proud to be associated with history of the United Kingdom and Europe.

Same way I am proud of being a supporter of the English cricket team. I don't play Cricket but I still follow them and enjoy it when they win and feel sad when they lose and when they are the number one team in the world I feel proud of that fact.

Rifte · 23 Feb 2017 at 10:51

darkgen said:
Surely that's purely ceremonial? You can still hold dual citizenship (American and British).

Can't you just renounce your British citizenship and apply again once you are 'American'? I believe my friend did this.....could be wrong

ebilcake · 23 Feb 2017 at 10:53

Six6siX said:
Are you proud to be Japanese too? And German? And Australian? I mean, you are human aren't you? And they are also human. There's an association.

Like I said, depends how loosely you want to interpenetrate it, although the grander the scale the less meaningful it gets.

darkgen · 23 Feb 2017 at 10:55

Rifte said:
Can't you just renounce your British citizenship and apply again once you are 'American'? I believe my friend did this.....could be wrong

You don't have to give up your British citizenship at all. I suspect you merely have to say the words during the ceremony.

Cosimo · 23 Feb 2017 at 10:56

I'm proud to be European and British so all you little Englanders can step out of my way...

Rifte · 23 Feb 2017 at 10:56

I think 'proud' is appropriate. I don't understand anyone having a meltdown over its use in this context.

Uther · 23 Feb 2017 at 10:59

Whats happened in the last (fifty or so?) few years to make people lose their patriotism? I'm sure people were a helluva lot more patriotic when I was younger. I remember the Silver Jubilee and all the street parties. Now patriotism for the British seems like a dirty word, and is seen as xenophobic and racist.

Warbie · 23 Feb 2017 at 10:59

I don't really get taking pride in other people's achievements. Be inspired by good works and honour those that did them, but where they were born is irrelevant.

Rifte · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:00

darkgen said:
You don't have to give up your British citizenship at all. I suspect you merely have to say the words during the ceremony.

Result then. I suppose the only issue with a US passport is the severe overseas income tax rules they have then?Unless I am missing something?

I have British and Australian citizenship....and overseas citizenship for India ( thanks to my wife).

Bring born and brought up in the UK though I relate more to my home than anywhere else though.

scorza · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:02

Warbie said:
I don't really get taking pride in other people's achievements. Be inspired by good works and honour those who did them, but the where the person who did them was born is irrelevant.

It's not about taking pride in other people's achievements, it's about continuing their legacy. Sure I had nothing to do with the English civil war, but I can try my best to make sure our parliamentary democracy remains the supreme authority of the land.

Rifte · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:15

Warbie said:
I don't really get taking pride in other people's achievements. Be inspired by good works and honour those that did them, but where they were born is irrelevant.

I didnt personally and dont contribute towards any of the achievements that have been made within the UK.

I dont represent our country in any sport
I am not a scientist or an engineer that is going to change the world.
I didn't and neither did any of my relatives fight in the great war

Does that mean that I cannot use the word 'pride' to relate to a sense of achievement that our little Island has made a difference somewhere?

If we are getting bent out of shape over its exact terminology that it usually refers to a personal contribution, what about that feeling of satisfaction or relating yourself with something that is and has been great?

I think its appropriate, and aside from being pedantic, people would not think it is odd to use the word 'pride' in respect of patriotism.

G-MAN2004 · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:16

I wouldn't say proud as I had nothing to do with any of its achievements, but I am certainly very happy and grateful to have been born in the best country in the world.

As for being European, I don't think I've ever really thought of it that way. British does nicely, thanks.

Gaygle · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:17

I find that people who are overly proud to be British are often the ones who make me ashamed to be British.

We're *very* lucky to live in Britain, it's not perfect, but unquestionably a great country with so much character. However, I don't salute the flag every morning though or get into arguments with people from others countries about how my country is better. Most of Western Europe is much of muchness. All share a similar history, all have similar cultures, all are similarly wealthy - which is great. If I got thrown out of Britain one day, I'd be *more* than happy to live in France, Italy, Germany, Switzerland etc etc.

I find a lot of Americans tend to be the type that think their country is the "best", chanting "USA, USA, USA" and are annoyingly arrogant about it all - I still don't understand why. It just breeds division. -

Efour · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:23

So when we are being proud of our history, shouldnt we also be apologetic of our wrong doings too? Or dont those sins Count because they dont bring the fuzzy feelings ?
I dont Think that nationilism and being proud of history has any real Place in a modern World. (This stupid pc keeps autocorrecting to Capital letters.)

You can be practically anywhere on the planet within 24h or less. never has the World been a smaller Place, never in history have we been closer together as a planetary populous.
I read a lot of military history and we have up until recently been at the forefront of most technology but thatsbeen driven by nesscesaity. Constant wars with neighbours in europé have spurned that on. Not really anything to be proud of. Proud of not losing too badly maybe?

Ill be honest ive Always seen those with a strong sense of patriotism as a "Little bit stupid" Mostly because strong patriotic views are often bundled with big dogs, short hair Cuts and 0 GCSEs. Huge generalisastion but the stereotypes a goodun. (Thats a romford POV, adapt it to how suits your region)

Rifte · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:23

Gaygle said:
I find a lot of Americans tend to be the type that think their country is the "best", chanting "USA, USA, USA" and are annoyingly arrogant about it all - I still don't understand why. It just breeds division. -

Yes, thats one thing I do not understand either, as well as the flag in the front lawn.

Avenged7Fold · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:24

Gaygle said:
I find a lot of Americans tend to be the type that think their country is the "best", chanting "USA, USA, USA" and are annoyingly arrogant about it all - I still don't understand why. It just breeds division. -

I think the OTT patriotism that seems to be instilled in their politics and education is what has led many of the average citizens to be more isolated from the rest of the world. There is comradery and other benefits to nationalism but that is not to say that being over nationalistic can lead to delusions of grandeur, contempt for those outside your nation and such.

What i find ridiculous is when people/politicians use patriotism as a tool to manipulate and bully. If you dont agree with supporting some war that big wigs have started then you are 'unpatriotic'. Those big wigs may be running the country but they are not the country.

You want to alienate a political idea that suits your need as a politician in america? All you got to do is call the idea un-american and it seems that some of the flag wavers who were indifferent before suddenly find themselves on one side of the fence.

Efour · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:29

Rifte said:
Yes, thats one thing I do not understand either, as well as the flag in the front lawn.

They do flags on the lawn here too in My part of Sweden. To be honest im living in one of the most anti foreginer areas on the country. Luckily im White and being British is also a bonus. THey arevery proud up here. Its a lot like some hicksville part of America. 4x4 pickups, flannel shirts, baseball caps and meatballs lol..

When you sit down with someone else from a nother country and they list reasons why they are proud to be from XXXX you soon realise its complete BS. Dumb people are proud of whatever dirt patch they have mortgaged in whatever country, Patriotism has replaced god. Thats why Some countries are so messed up. a blend of Stiff Patriotic beleifs mixed with religeous fairytails justifying it. .. Idiots.

Avenged7Fold · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:31

Efour said:
4x4 pickups, flannel shirts, baseball caps and meatballs lol

Could be worse, could be all of that but without meatballs

Cromulent · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:43

Efour said:
They do flags on the lawn here too in My part of Sweden. To be honest im living in one of the most anti foreginer areas on the country. Luckily im White and being British is also a bonus. THey arevery proud up here. Its a lot like some hicksville part of America. 4x4 pickups, flannel shirts, baseball caps and meatballs lol..

When you sit down with someone else from a nother country and they list reasons why they are proud to be from XXXX you soon realise its complete BS. Dumb people are proud of whatever dirt patch they have mortgaged in whatever country, Patriotism has replaced god. Thats why Some countries are so messed up. a blend of Stiff Patriotic beleifs mixed with religeous fairytails justifying it. .. Idiots.

Whether you like it or not humans are tribal by nature. That is way we have evolved. All those people harping on about how "we should all just get along together" miss the fact that we are a tribal species. Look at apes and chimps our closest relatives. They live in a groups and can often fight other groups that are not part of their own. The same is true of humans. Check this out for some info on what I am talking about.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/jun/21/chimpanzees-territory-killing-neighbours

Patriotism gives people a tribe to belong to and brings unity to a group of people that would otherwise splinter and fight each other. I just extend my patriotism beyond the borders of the United Kingdom and include Europe in that too as there is so much shared history in Europe. Humans are animals just like any other and we need to feel like we belong to a group. It could be a nation, a sporting team or whatever but if you observe people they ALWAYS splinter into separate social groups or tribes.

Jono · 23 Feb 2017 at 11:46

No one else in the world does pomp and circumstance quite as well as we do, so yeah I'm proud to be English AND British AND European and Me.
I don't, however think I'm better than anyone else because I'm those things. I haven't really contributed to any implied "greatness", anyway. So am I really proud? I dunno.

I don't think I should be ashamed, either.