Good simple cars

[lordrobs]

Morning all. I've been having a bit of a think recently and with a healthy dose of rose tinting I was trying to get my head round why I like older cars. Just to qualify this, by older I'm talking pre 2000 in most cases. I think part of my attraction is their simplicity.

Now I'll admit that I am a bit of a luddite when it comes to technology and I can appreciate mod cons such as cruise and climate as much as the next person but it sometimes feels to me that cars come with a bit too much faff these days. Out with a colleague the other day and his car starts beeping as we approach a car park with the sat nav display showing a picture of the bollard we were both well aware of to the offside. I mentioned to someone else that I thought the choice of interior lighting colour seemed strange for the car colour scheme at which they pointed out that they could select whatever colour they wanted.

This is the sort of stuff that, for me, detracts from what I enjoy about cars and driving.

So, enough waffle and onto a good old hypothetical question. If you were in the market for a basic (in technical terms) but good (in every other aspect) car these days what are your options? It seems to me that aside from fairly bespoke sports car manufacturers that you are out of luck with only the most basic of superminis being able to avoid the touch screen "infotainment" trend. Go on motors, prove me wrong!

 

[Daaaavvveee]

If you want a basic car, if you go for one of the main car makers, and go for their bottom models they tend to have no "infotainment" systems.

Personally, I don't know what I would do without my heated seats, Auto Xenons, Wipers etc etc.

I love technology, and the more that's in the car, in my eyes, the better.

 

[Jamesyboyjim]

If you want a basic car, if you go for one of the main car makers, and go for their bottom models they tend to have no "infotainment" systems.

This.

You'll find the bottom end model of cars nowadays still only include the basics, no big touch display, no auto lights etc, no climate control, just power steering electric front windows and probably air con.

As for me, the more gadgets the better! (not that I have all that many in my car )

 

[Akagi]

I like simple cars too, my current two cars (MX5 and E30) both have ABS, electric windows, and a radio. Not much else.

That said however, I am conflicted between getting a newer car with creature comforts to replace the MX5, or not.

All I really want is Climate control, radar guided cruise, comfy heated seats, steering wheel buttons, and a healthy dose of soundproofing. Anything else I can take or leave.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Morning all. I've been having a bit of a think recently and with a healthy dose of rose tinting I was trying to get my head round why I like older cars. Just to qualify this, by older I'm talking pre 2000 in most cases. I think part of my attraction is their simplicity.

Now I'll admit that I am a bit of a luddite when it comes to technology and I can appreciate mod cons such as cruise and climate as much as the next person but it sometimes feels to me that cars come with a bit too much faff these days. Out with a colleague the other day and his car starts beeping as we approach a car park with the sat nav display showing a picture of the bollard we were both well aware of to the offside. I mentioned to someone else that I thought the choice of interior lighting colour seemed strange for the car colour scheme at which they pointed out that they could select whatever colour they wanted.

This is the sort of stuff that, for me, detracts from what I enjoy about cars and driving.

So, enough waffle and onto a good old hypothetical question. If you were in the market for a basic (in technical terms) but good (in every other aspect) car these days what are your options? It seems to me that aside from fairly bespoke sports car manufacturers that you are out of luck with only the most basic of superminis being able to avoid the touch screen "infotainment" trend. Go on motors, prove me wrong!

Built in sat navs are crap. I don't know why anyone would want one tbh when everyone should have a smartphone with waze or google maps which are kept up to date for free and warn you of speed cameras, accidents, traffic, congestion, roadworks, etc.

Basically it's not technology that is the issue it's picking the right ones worth having.

 

[lordrobs]

If you want a basic car, if you go for one of the main car makers, and go for their bottom models they tend to have no "infotainment" systems.

Personally, I don't know what I would do without my heated seats, Auto Xenons, Wipers etc etc.

I love technology, and the more that's in the car, in my eyes, the better.

This.

You'll find the bottom end model of cars nowadays still only include the basics, no big touch display, no auto lights etc, no climate control, just power steering electric front windows and probably air con.

As for me, the more gadgets the better! (not that I have all that many in my car )

I've not done a very good job of explaining what I'm getting at so I'll give a couple of examples. I owned a mk1 Octavia vRS (OK so it was a 2002 but it was effectively a late 90's model) which had cruise and climate but I'd categorise it as a simple car as it didn't have all the extra faff that cars seem to have to have these days. My current work machine is a Focus Zetec, no cruise, no climate so lower spec but yet it doesn't have that nice basic feel that the Octavia had.

I guess the closest I've come to what I like in a car recently has been my old work B6 Passat. Cruise, climate, heated seats etc. yet everything just worked in a logical way. The interior was simple. I didn't have to navigate four screens of options to change the time on the clock. I didn't have a TV screen telling me forty bits of information I don't need. It was just a nice overall package to sit in and drive.

Acme - radar guided cruise is a good example, I'd love to have that but I wouldn't want to have radar cruise which then tells me on the 6" TFT on the dash exactly how far I am from the car in front with multiple options for exactly how far I want to sit behind the car with a 'bong' every time a car cuts in front I'm not against the features of modern cars as such, it is more their implication that I don't like. As I say, maybe I'm just an old git who needs to get with the times.

I mean, the current MX5 isn't exactly a complex car but I was still disappointed to see the obligatory stuck on touch screen on every model apart from the most basic one.

 

[snapdragon69]

I like all the features, but not when they interfere with driving. I hate the new "Watch the stopped vehicle ahead", Lane keep beeps and intervention, stop-start, blind spot beeps, self-parking rubbish, silly messages, things like seat adjustments locked out unless in P etc...

 

[paradigm]

Built in sat navs are crap. I don't know why anyone would want one tbh when everyone should have a smartphone with waze or google maps which are kept up to date for free and warn you of speed cameras, accidents, traffic, congestion, roadworks, etc.

Basically it's not technology that is the issue it's picking the right ones worth having.

Yeah, there's nothing better than trailing power cables, crap quality mounts and awkward positioning of your postage stamp sized screen for satnav.

I'll stick with my internet connected, Google maps/earth integrated, online updated, traffic aware, 12.3" display that's right in front of me via Virtual Cockpit.

But by all means continue to use your flawed, compromised setup.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Yeah, there's nothing better than trailing power cables, crap quality mounts and awkward positioning of your postage stamp sized screen for satnav.

I'll stick with my internet connected, Google maps/earth integrated, online updated, traffic aware, 12.3" display that's right in front of me via Virtual Cockpit.

But by all means continue to use your flawed, compromised setup.

No need for a power cable. I charge before I leave home and can charge at my destination if required or I can take my power bank with me and charge wherever. I can't charge anyway whilst driving as it saps power from my DAB aerial so i can't use digital radio. Android > Iphone for battery life too.

As for crappy mounts then buy a decent one they aren't expensive £15 will get you a top of the range mount. I find my 5.1" screen more than capable. it's also positioned on the very right side of the dashboard whereas most built in sat navs are in the centre and you need to take your eyes off the road entirely to see them. However virtual cockpit is one of the much better systems. Every system I have seen in BMW X5's, Merc E-Class, etc hasn't been that great. In fact it stopped working in the E-Class which is only 4 years old now and they couldn't fix it and they said the part required for it is no longer made. Still charged £200 to look into it.

I don't find it a flawed system at all. Every taxi driver uses a tom-tom, etc. With a phone you kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

It's 100 times easier to upgrade your phone than it is built in sat nav in a car.

 

[King4aDay]

What is this infotainment you speak of? My current 2001 X Type is the newest car I've ever had I have to admit I do like the electrically adjusted seats, but that's as swanky as it gets - tape deck, no cruise, no satnav!

 

[Jamesyboyjim]

I think maybe what you are getting at op is as cars get newer, regardless of tech, they become so much comfier and smoother to drive, lots of effort is put into making the ride as nice as possible, the position as optimal as it can be, the cab as quiet as possible, things like that. I think maybe this is what makes you feel detached from the drive, rather than all the gadgets because you mention your Focus, despite being very basic, doesn't feel simple either.

 

[Participant]

I don't find it a flawed system at all. Every taxi driver uses a tom-tom, etc.

Because taxi drivers are the epitome of motoring prowess and have absolutely no ulterior motives in running the cheapest car possible.

Integrated nav is a far more pleasant and in general fuss-free way to go about things, especially for systems that support Google.

Also no phone battery lasts long if unplugged and when running GPS, so your solution of 'just charge it when you get there' only really works when your route is so short you don't need a nav anyway!

As for mounts, no matter how good, they're an eyesore on the windscreen.

I'm running Google Maps for nav in my Volvo S80 as it doesn't have a nav system, and while it works well, it's not the neatest solution and I can't wait for a car with integrated nav.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Because taxi drivers are the epitome of motoring prowess and have absolutely no ulterior motives in running the cheapest car possible.

Integrated nav is a far more pleasant and in general fuss-free way to go about things, especially for systems that support Google.

Also no phone battery lasts long if unplugged and when running GPS, so your solution of 'just charge it when you get there' only really works when your route is so short you don't need a nav anyway!

As for mounts, no matter how good, they're an eyesore on the windscreen.

I'm running Google Maps for nav in my Volvo S80 as it doesn't have a nav system, and while it works well, it's not the neatest solution and I can't wait for a car with integrated nav.

I used my phone to go from Glasgow to about 30 miles south of Newcastle and back on sat nav with no issues at all within the space of around 8 hours.

When it gets to the point it says continue down this road for 30 miles, you can switch the screen off and keep an eye on the trip mileage or just turn the screen back on after 25 minutes.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Ive been tempted by some of the aftermarket Carplay units, lets be honest Google Maps is awesome, live, updated and slick.

Yeah, there's nothing better than trailing power cables, crap quality mounts and awkward positioning of your postage stamp sized screen for satnav.

I'll stick with my internet connected, Google maps/earth integrated, online updated, traffic aware, 12.3" display that's right in front of me via Virtual Cockpit.

But by all means continue to use your flawed, compromised setup.

Yeah, but maybe his gearbox works?

 

[lordrobs]

I think maybe what you are getting at op is as cars get newer, regardless of tech, they become so much comfier and smoother to drive, lots of effort is put into making the ride as nice as possible, the position as optimal as it can be, the cab as quiet as possible, things like that. I think maybe this is what makes you feel detached from the drive, rather than all the gadgets because you mention your Focus, despite being very basic, doesn't feel simple either.

I'm all for comfort and a nice smooth drive, which is probably at odds with my mk1 MX5 but it's good to have a bit of variety in life As for feeling detached though, yes that is a big factor to me. If I prod the loud pedal I want a bark of acknowledgement from the engine and for fuel to be converted into forward motion. Even the slightest hint of "lets see what the computers say" ruins it for me.

No arguments over which sat nav is better please I can see the positives of both setups. Virtual cockpit.... it is very cool, extremely clever and well implemented but it just isn't for me and is a prime example of what I'm talking about. I know I'm odd, a luddite a whatever hence why the car market is moving further and further away from what I would spend my hard earned on but that sort of thing just isn't for me. A selection of physical dials that tell me everything I need to know in the same place no matter what I'm doing, that'll do me fine!

 

[asim18]

Yeah, there's nothing better than trailing power cables, crap quality mounts and awkward positioning of your postage stamp sized screen for satnav.

I'll stick with my internet connected, Google maps/earth integrated, online updated, traffic aware, 12.3" display that's right in front of me via Virtual Cockpit.

But by all means continue to use your flawed, compromised setup.

Is "virtual cockpit" what you call it, or is that actually some sort of Audi trademarked buzzword for a screen? I think that's the best buzzword for an LCD display I've ever heard.

Apple's Retina™ was marketing buzzword of the decade but this Audi's Virtual Cockpit™ has just taken the buscuit.

 

[lordrobs]

It is the Audi terminology. To be fair it is more than a screen. The entire instrument cluster can be configured differently based upon what information is being shown at the time sat nav, media etc.

Put the term into a google image search for about a million examples of what it can do

 

[Blackhawk47]

This thread is bonkers. A good integrated navigation system is so much better than using a phone...full stop.

I think people who believe 'simple cars' are better, either don't know any better or can't afford it.

In terms of interior, you won't find many new cars as straight forward and intuitive as the TT. The Audi Virtual Cockpit is incredible but does take a week or so to get used to it.

 

[Tinders]

I like my daily to be comfy and have a few creature comforts, but auto everything does nothing for me. Now odd as it sounds in the last few weeks, the most fun i have had has been in courtesy cars, one was a VX Viva and other some suzuki crap box, but they were fun and simple, and truly thrashable. I think modern cars, even rubbish ones, are just too good.

But like i said, my daily has to be comfy, nothing better than to sit back and relax and stroke your soft touch dash,fondle your lines door bins and caress your damped glovebox on a four hour drive to scotland

 

[ttaskmaster]

Basically it's not technology that is the issue it's picking the right ones worth having.

It's finding ones that work the way you like them to... including the ability to switch them off and not use them, if you so choose!

I owned a mk1 Octavia vRS (OK so it was a 2002 but it was effectively a late 90's model) which had cruise and climate but I'd categorise it as a simple car as it didn't have all the extra faff that cars seem to have to have these days.

Funny... I just got a mk1 Octy 1.9TDi 130PD L&K... and I love it for pretty much all the things you seem to seek!!
You don't fancy another Octy, then?

As I say, maybe I'm just an old git who needs to get with the times.

Nope. I'm not old, but I still want little more than backlit buttons and dials. I like the single MFD thing, but huge great iPads in things like the Tesla are just horrid. I don't even like chrome surrounds on the instruments.

This thread is bonkers. A good integrated navigation system is so much better than using a phone...full stop.

Good integrated, yeah.... I think the problem is that most integrated systems are crap to begin with, though. Our Honda one is an utter piece of junk!!

I think people who believe 'simple cars' are better, either don't know any better or can't afford it.

I have that Climatronic thingy in my car. Yeah, it works and all, but conditions vary and all I want is a couple of dials to give me hot/cold and different fan speeds. As is, I have to fiddle with several different buttons to alter things and I'm taking my eyes off the road to make sure I hit the right ones. Dials I can use blind.

I have auto-wipers that vary the speed depending on the amount of detected rainfall... Yeah, it's nice and a cool feature, but I have to remember to switch it on every time and it's just as easy to use the manual switch.

I have a sunroof (or could be a moonroof, depending on definitions) with a dial - Open, closed and retracted, but with several settings all in between... Like it makes any difference beyond the initial three positions. Don't know anyone who finds having it 3/7ths retracted to be better than 4/7ths...

I can appreciate a lot of technology... I just tend to prefer the more physically engaging aspects. I hate touchscreens, too, for example. No amount of haptic feedback or whatever is as good as pressing an actual button.