Australian parenting - No Jab, no play and no rebate

[asim18]

Once the virus has entered an individual, it infects the cells of the throat


A physician who suspects polio will perform laboratory tests that check for poliovirus by examining throat secretions

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/155580.php


Wanna keep trying asim?

Once the virus has entered an individual, it infects the cells of the throat. Once.

IT doesn't ENTER through respiratory tract. lol.

I'm not trying anything. You're the one who's now trying to keep on trying to say that polio is an RTI. Obviously you said something silly now you're just not going to accept that it isn't an RTI.

 

[Dis86]

But that still doesn't say polio is an RTI. You said it was an RTI. It is not. It's not through respiration.

Respiratory tract infections (RTIs) are any infection of the sinuses, throat...

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Respiratory-tract-infection/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Wrong again

 

[Dis86]

Once the virus has entered an individual, IT INFECTS THE CELLS OF THE THROAT.

IT doesn't ENTER through respiratory tract. lol.

I'm not trying anything. You're the one who's now trying to keep on trying to say that polio is an RTI.

Lol. Is all. Just lol. You're a joke.

 

[asim18]

Respiratory tract infections (RTIs) are any infection of the sinuses, throat...

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Respiratory-tract-infection/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Wrong again

Polio is not mentioned anywhere on that page. It lists the RTIs too but there is no mention of polio.

You don't even read full sentences. The full paragraph is this:

"Once the virus has entered an individual, it infects the cells of the throat and intestine. It takes over the host's cellular machinery and begins to replicate. The virus stays within the intestines, rapidly dividing for a week, before spreading to other areas of the body. Eventually, the virus moves into the bloodstream where it can spread to the entire body."

The virus isn't an RTI.

Anyway, as usual you are resorting to some pointless low level semantics based arguing. lol.

Just because a VERY small percentage may get flu-like symptoms doesn't mean it's an RTI.

Ok fine it's an RTI big deal, even if it is, it doesn't negate the fact that you still need to swallow it for it to have any effect on you. Can we stop this pointless semantic argument now lol. You just latch onto pointless things which have no meaning. The point is that breathing it in doesn't do anything to you.



I bet you think the vaccine itself is an RTI just because some people may get flu-like symptoms.

 

[Angilion]

What I was saying is the first thing anybody might read about vaccines on the NHS site is that there are risks.

I think the main problem here is that people are thinking that I am against vaccines when I am neither for them nor against them - I do not jump in one camp or the other because I do not know enough to make an informed decision, if I had a child it would be different.

What I am saying is that I can understand people being wary and people here are jumping on it, which tbh is typical bullying behaviour for this place, which is also why I very rarely post in these type of sensitive threads.

One side is putting hundreds of millions if not billions of lives and entire civilisations at risk for power, profit and conspiracy faith.

And you're calling the other side bullies.

I take it all of you lot have read everything there is to read before you made your informed choices?

A silly rhetorical question.

Have you read everything there is to read about mavity? Of course not, since (as you must know) nobody has ever read everything there is to read about anything. So would you jump off a roof rather than using the stairs because there's a mild risk to using the stairs? Would you jump off a roof rather than using the stairs because someone has said that stairs are a global conspiracy that businesses lie about...while that person gets power and money (i.e. business) from doing so?

And enough of the conspiracy accusations, please, but if it makes you feel better to pigeon hole anybody who has a different opinion to yours as being simply a nut case then carry on.

You brought up the idea of a global agreement between all medical organisations and governments to lie about vaccines. Which is a conspiracy. Or would be, if it existed. I've also explained (more than once) why such a conspiracy is a required part of the belief of even the most "moderate" anti-vaccination position - that vaccination is a greater risk than not vaccinating.

 

[Eddie]

One side is putting hundreds of millions if not billions of lives and entire civilisations at risk for power, profit and conspiracy faith.

And you're calling the other side bullies.

You're back on to the conspiracy stuff again and I'm calling you a bully.

A silly rhetorical question.

Have you read everything there is to read about mavity? Of course not, since (as you must know) nobody has ever read everything there is to read about anything. So would you jump off a roof rather than using the stairs because there's a mild risk to using the stairs? Would you jump off a roof rather than using the stairs because someone has said that stairs are a global conspiracy that businesses lie about...while that person gets power and money (i.e. business) from doing so?

I don't need anyone to prove to me that mavity exists because I see the effects of it nearly every day. If you want to blindly follow without question then go ahead.

You brought up the idea of a global agreement between all medical organisations and governments to lie about vaccines. Which is a conspiracy. Or would be, if it existed. I've also explained (more than once) why such a conspiracy is a required part of the belief of even the most "moderate" anti-vaccination position - that vaccination is a greater risk than not vaccinating.

I didn't mention anything about a global agreement or a conspiracy.

I think I've explained myself enough.

 

[Sankari]

Therefore, if you can joke about Maddie, I cannot take anything you say seriously, I assume you're just having a laugh.

This is utterly nonsensical.

[I have focused on this image because it made me laugh the most. It literally suggests polio vaccine is a cure for "poor sanitation"

No it does not. It makes the point that the polio vaccine can eliminate polio despite the absence of good sanitation.

. No polio cases? Yeah lets completely ignore all the other diseases spread through poor sanitation, and just because polio isn't an issue, poor sanitation must also not be an issue right???

Straw man.

 

[Sankari]

But polio isn't a respiratory tract infection.

It doesn't need to be. The issue here is the means of transmission. Once it's transmitted via saliva, it enters the bloodstream.

And even if it does get into you, there's a 70% chance you wont even realise!

...and you'll be happily spreading it to other people.

You still have not addressed the point of the India meme. Please address it. Explain to me how India has been polio free since 2011 despite suffering poor sanitation and hygiene.

 

[Sankari]

You're back on to the conspiracy stuff again

But it's not conspiracy stuff. Vaccines have saved literally millions of lives. When vaccination rates fall, millions of lives are put at risk. That's indisputable.

and I'm calling you a bully.

He's reciting scientific facts that you find inconvenient. That doesn't make him a bully.

 

[Minstadave]

To be fair, Hep A and Rotavirus are dropping. I'm sure that's down to the good hygiene and not that they both have vaccinations available though.

The other reason Rotavirus is dropping is.....universal rotavirus vaccination:

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/rotavirus-vaccine

 

[shorttricky]

The other reason Rotavirus is dropping is.....universal rotavirus vaccination:

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/rotavirus-vaccine

I should have added [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags, I was obviously too subtle there

 

[Minstadave]

Sorry I was mid night shift (looking after sick kids - I really have no time for the antivirus brigade) and didn't register properly

 

[asim18]

This is utterly nonsensical.

You really cannot make sense of something this basic? So how on earch could you possibly understand every single variable when it comes to medicine/vaccines?

Its not difficult to see where my reluctance to take you seriously stems from. You made an epic joke in the maddie thread, i assumed you were serious. Even in this thread you bombarded a bazillion random images in my direction telling me things which i have never even disputed, like autism for example. What this showed to me is that you are not rational. I cant take you seriously.

No it does not. It makes the point that the polio vaccine can eliminate polio despite the absence of good sanitation.

Stop being so ignorant. Im not saying polio vaccine doesnt work. Im just saying hygiene is just as effective and as a bonus stops dozens of other problems too, if not more effective (because there are dozens of other issues which hygiene fixes including polio). Your stance is that of an inherantly ignorant person. You just keep focussing on polio as the only problem with dirty water lmao and ignore everything else.

Straw man.

Wait what? me being able to identify and look at all the problems and diseases associated with poor hygene instead of just focusing on one little disease like an ignorant person is a straw man?

You're the one with the straw mans lol, when you dished out a zillion images in my direction for crap which i havent even said or disputed lol. Its clear you have an irrational support of vaccines.

 

[asim18]

It doesn't need to be. The issue here is the means of transmission. Once it's transmitted via saliva, it enters the bloodstream.

Absolute bs. It enters the bloodstream through the INTESTINE not through the saliva/mucous membranes. It can be carried alongside saliva but as i said you need to swallow it and it needs to reach your intestines first. It simply touching your saliva will not infect you. Read up on enterovirus you dont seem to have a clue. And just seem to be using strawman nonsense to blindly and irrationally back up all vaccinations.

...and you'll be happily spreading it to other people.

70% of whom will also feel NOTHING at all all. You should do some research on how percentages work.

 

[Werewolf]

Asim hygine isn't just as effective as a vaccination, unless you can guarantee that every single person is going to be dealing with hygiene in roughly the same manner as a surgeon about to perform an operation, and everyohne is going to wipe down the toilet fully and properly with disinfectant every time they go.

Hygiene no doubt helps, but it requires a very high level of it from everyone, a level that you won't find in any country as there are shared points of contact, for example can you guarantee that the toilet you are using is only ever used by yourself, or otherwise is fully and comprehensively cleaned (every surface) after every user?
To the point that if you to to put your hand to your mouth 5 minutes after washing them you've not possibly touched anything that could have been contaminated in the mean time? (door handles, taps, towels etc).

this completely ignores any other ways in which you might catch it via secondary methods as have been described.

A vaccine is a largely passive defense against the diseases once you've had it, as opposed to relying on an impossible level of hygiene.

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

In my opinion we would be foolish to put all our eggs in one basket. We can not truly know the possible future effects of a vaccine. If scientific opinion suggests it should be safe then most people should use it. It is prudent, from a humanity survival standpoint, that some do not use the vaccine just in case there is a long-term issue that manifests in a hundred years and kills the users (or users' progeny). This is true even if the non-use of a small portion of humans increases the risks to those who do.

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

Does hygiene affect our resistance in a negative way over time/across generations ?

*edit: general resistance mechanisms and resistance to specific diseases

 

[Sankari]

You really cannot make sense of something this basic? So how on earch could you

*snip*

You're still not making sense. I'll be inclined to discuss this topic further when you've shown you can do so in an appropriate manner. You can start by addressing these facts:

FYI, this is how polio infection occurs:

* virus enters mouth and/or nose following exposure to contaminated food or water (e.g. tiny traces of fecal matter) or an infected person (e.g. droplets from cough, sneeze, kiss); this can happen simply by touching your hand to your mouth after it has been in contact with a contaminated substance
* virus multiplies in the throat
* virus descends from the throat to the gastrointestinal tract
* virus multiplies in the gastrointestinal tract
* virus enters the bloodstream
* virus is carried via the bloodstream into the central nervous system
* virus replicates, and destroys motor neuron cells

In my opinion we would be foolish to put all our eggs in one basket.

Vaccination is not 'putting all our eggs in one basket.' It's a case of applying the appropriate medical solution to a specific medical problem.

We can not truly know the possible future effects of a vaccine.

Yes we can. That's why we test them, and monitor their effects for many decades after they're introduced.

Does hygiene affect our resistance in a negative way over time/across generations ?

*edit: general resistance mechanisms and resistance to specific diseases

No. But lack of hygiene certainly does.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Does hygiene affect our resistance in a negative way over time/across generations ?

Do vaccinations?

 

[Minstadave]

Do vaccinations?

Not unless you stop vaccinating.