Australian parenting - No Jab, no play and no rebate

[Eddie]

It's not about being anti-vax though, that's the point I think the few who dare say anything here are trying to make.

Haha, yeah I'm going to request a name change when I feel brave enough to ask (I'm sure some of you could come up with a few suggestions).

 

[shorttricky]

Haha, yeah I'm going to request a name change when I feel brave enough to ask (I'm sure some of you could come up with a few suggestions).

NotARealDoctorAndProbablyABorderCollieEddie

 

[Vonhelmet]

I'm not arguing against vaccines. I'm arguing against blithely accepting medical bodies and governments as having childrens best interests at heart.

Of course they have their best interests at heart. It's just that no one knew that the chirality of the molecule in thalidomide would have such a catastrophic impact.

 

[Eddie]

NotARealDoctorAndProbablyABorderCollieEddie

I like it!

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

I'm not anti-vaccination, if I had kids they would deffo be vaccinated. I'm asking myself about the pros and cons of enforcing vaccination and of letting parents decide. By all following the same course of action we would introduce a risk, however vanishingly small it may be.

 

[asim18]

How do we explain to them that they have to get polio because Tubby_Glossop thinks they shouldn't be vaccinated?

No, it's called unethical.

Are you trying to joke in this thread too? I swear I'm under the impression that you are a comedy genius.

For anyone who doesn't understand the joke/epic irony here, I believe that photo and others like it are from the "cutter incident", where 200,000 children were injected with actual live polio virus.

In April 1955 more than 200 000 children in five Western and mid-Western USA states received a polio vaccine in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective. Within days there were reports of paralysis and within a month the first mass vaccination programme against polio had to be abandoned. Subsequent investigations revealed that the vaccine, manufactured by the California-based family firm of Cutter Laboratories, had caused 40 000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10.

So 200,000 children were injected with actual live polio virus by a doctor or nurse.

It caused 40,000 people with symptoms of polio.

But remember how 70% of cases show no symptoms whatsoever?

160,000 people which is MORE than the extrapolation, showed NO symptoms whatsoever after being infected with polio DIRECTLY.

200,000 guaranteed polio infections, ONLY TEN died!!!

So 80% of people had natural super genetics which rendered them COMPLETELY and NATURALLY IMPERVIOUS TO POLIO.

While 20% were "strong enough" that they didn't die.

And only 0.005% died. That's a 99.995% survival rate for polio! And who don't we thank for that? Millions of years worth of natural evolution. We just completely ****ing ignore that and that makes me very sad.

Then what happened next haha:

National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program was introduced in 1986 to protect vaccine manufacturers from litigation

It's utterly ridiculous that they have a need to set up a special program to compensate people who they destroy with their medicine? I despair.

The human species is being ruined, positive natural selection has been going on since life began, it is now artificial negative-selection.

We are the first species in the history of all life on earth, to perform artificial selection, and we are unbelievably stupid to do it negatively, But then how can I really blame humanity and 99% of people in this thread? After all, we are programmed to be emotional, we are programmed to become attached to insignificant things.

I don't know the result of artificial negative-selection but it does make me wonder, and I don't believe it can possibly be a good thing.

Humanity's greed is what will kill us. It is well known that humanity will self destruct.

 

[asim18]

Of course they have their best interests at heart. It's just that no one knew that the chirality of the molecule in thalidomide would have such a catastrophic impact.

Yeah just like they have no idea what happens after multiple generations. 50 years my arse lmao, not long enough.

 

[StriderX]

Because as a state, you have to think about everyone, not just the parents, so this means the children are for all intents and purposes are simply citizens of the state, and their non-vaccination is a danger.

Eventually once the vaccination levels drop enough to cause outbreaks again because of this stupidity, you'll find parental rights being swept right into the sea.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Yeah just like they have no idea what happens after multiple generations. 50 years my arse lmao, not long enough.

I really don't know what you think you're talking about. Vaccines cause your body to produce antibodies. What calamity are you predicting and on what basis? How much medical training do you have anyway?

 

[Vonhelmet]

Because as a state, you have to think about everyone, not just the parents, so this means the children are for all intents and purposes are simply citizens of the state, and their non-vaccination is a danger.

Eventually once the vaccination levels drop enough to cause outbreaks again because of this stupidity, you'll find parental rights being swept right into the sea.

There's already been outbreaks of lovely wholesome measles in places with low vaccination uptake in recent years.

 

[asim18]

I really don't know what you think you're talking about. Vaccines cause your body to produce antibodies. What calamity are you predicting and on what basis? How much medical training do you have anyway?

Are you seriously questioning my "medical training" when you've just literally posted the following:

"It's just that no one knew that the chirality of the molecule in thalidomide would have such a catastrophic impact."

And also right after I've posted that 200,000 children were INFECTED by a VACCINE (created by medical professionals). lmao



And you have the cheek to question me on my medical training? All i said was "no one knows what happens after multiple generations". Hahahahahahahahahaha

So what If I had better medical training I could magically know what happens after multigenerational vaccinations?

This is just a classic example of psychological defence mechanism. Denial, deflection, and absurdity.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Are you seriously questioning my "medical training" when you've just literally posted the following:

"It's just that no one knew that the chirality of the molecule in thalidomide would have such a catastrophic impact."

What's one got to do with the other? I don't follow.

And also right after I've posted that 200,000 children were INFECTED by a VACCINE. lmao


This is just a classic psychological defence mechanism. Denial and deflection.

A **** up with one round of vaccinations does not render the whole process unsound. Nor does it back up your bizarre suggestion that bad things will happen in 50 years.

 

[asim18]

What's one got to do with the other? I don't follow.



A **** up with one round of vaccinations does not render the whole process unsound. Nor does it back up your bizarre suggestion that bad things will happen in 50 years.

No the point was how you deflected the onus of having "medical training" onto ME lmao. When I'm the one doing more thinking and being more careful, and trying to have more foresight than the people who made that ****ing fake vaccine for 200,000 children.


It doesn't render the whole process unsound, it renders the whole process completely and utterly pointless because 99.995% survival rate which includes an 80% COMPLETE NON-EFFECT rate.

 

[Vonhelmet]

No the point was how you deflected the onus of having "medical training" onto ME lmao. When I'm the one doing more thinking and being more careful than the people who made that ****ing fake vaccine for 200,000 children.

So it's basically you against the whole of medical science. Brilliant.

It doesn't render the whole process unsound, it renders the whole process completely and utterly pointless because 99.995% survival rate.

Not all that pointless for the 0.005%, huh? Also, 40,000 is 20% and and 200 is 0.1%. So not great odds when you're talking about being ill with polio or being left paralysed to a greater or lesser degree.

As ever, I'm glad you're not in charge of making any decisions in relation to, well, anything, but on this occasion I'm glad you're nowhere near health policy.

 

[asim18]

So it's basically you against the whole of medical science. Brilliant.



Not all that pointless for the 0.005%, huh?

As ever, I'm glad you're not in charge of making any decisions in relation to, well, anything, but on this occasion I'm glad you're nowhere near health policy.

More loaded BS. Me "against the world of medical science?" Simply for saying that "we don't know what the generational effect is yet (if any)"?? You're disgraceful.

Seriously??? Are you insane? I'm showing a concern for any potential generational effects of molesting people's immune systems and you're saying that's bad for medical science???? Your head aint screwed on properly m8.

You've just displayed that you're in favour of ignorance. What do you just want to ignore any potential problems? Is this how desperate you are?

I swear some people are so twisted. You are blatantly irrational.

 

[Angilion]

It's not about being anti-vax though, that's the point I think the few who dare say anything here are trying to make.

Haha, yeah I'm going to request a name change when I feel brave enough to ask (I'm sure some of you could come up with a few suggestions).

"Border Collie", obviously.

No, wait, I have it!

"I'm a border collie, Jim, not a doctor!"

 

[Angilion]

I'm not anti-vaccination, if I had kids they would deffo be vaccinated. I'm asking myself about the pros and cons of enforcing vaccination and of letting parents decide. By all following the same course of action we would introduce a risk, however vanishingly small it may be.

And by not doing in this case so we introduce a significant proven risk that definitely exists rather than a hypothetical risk that might exist but probably doesn't since there's no theoretical basis for it and ~200 years of evidence has shown no sign of it.

I think your argument doesn't apply to vaccination, although it would apply to some things. Genetic engineering of humans to create disease resistance that way, for example.

 

[Angilion]

Some vaccines have been around for a long time, like small pox for example. The number of people it has been responsible for saving is insane.

To put some ballpark numbers on that:

Smallpox deaths were running at about 10 million a year prior to the global vaccination program which eradicated it. Given the huge increase in population density and movement now, without vaccination the death toll would be much higher. There is no treatment for smallpox. So there's probably getting on for a billion lives saved by just one vaccine. Smallpox was also the leading cause of blindness in humans, since a small percentage of survivors were blinded and very many people were infected with smallpox due to how contagious it is.

Smallpox was the biggest single problem, but far from the only one. Even diseases with a very low death rate can kill large numbers of people. A 1% death rate is still a million dead if 100 million are infected and 100 million infected people is entirely possible with highly contagious diseases. We haven't seen massive epidemics directly, but even cursory knowledge show that they have occured and could occur again and would be even worse now than in the past due to the vast increase in population density and travel.

Then there's the permanent health problems that some survivors of some disease will have (like blindness from smallpox, post polio syndrome, etc, etc).

Put simply, we can't afford to not have mass vaccination even if we are for some reason willing to have massive amounts of people dying from preventable diseases. Even if all the ethical issues are completely ignored, we can't afford it financially.

 

[Energize]

Vaccines should definitely be compulsory as it is neglect not to give them.

 

[asim18]

Vaccines should definitely be compulsory as it is neglect not to give them.

Can I ask you a quick question please.

Do you think infecting 200,000 children with a dodgy vaccine is neglectful?

If you're going to answer please only answer "Yes" or "No". It's very important that you only answer Yes or No. Thanks.

To make it easier here is the definition from google:

neglectful - not giving proper care or attention to someone or something.