The NHS cut down on prescriptions deemed to have low clinical value

[asim18]

I don't expect others to pay for what I need because I chose to go on holiday somewhere.

But the stance in the vaccine thread was somewhat different. It was about protecting everyone, and the nation as a whole, the national heath. Also wasn't there an argument about prevention being better than treatment? Seems the whole idea behind vaccination has just gone out the window. Now its seems its okay to make it easy for some tight people to say no to them and bring back some disease. And the bill could go into hundreds if you have more than a couple kids, most people are still poor even if they're going on holiday.

Some people were even advocating punishing people who aren't bothered about vaccines lol. But now the tone seems somewhat different.

If you're doing a great job of adhering to a vaccine schedule consisting of dozens of diseases for everyone, internally, then why suddenly break that chain open when you just need one or two extra vaccines for a dangerous zone???

 

[Dis86]

But the stance in the vaccine thread was somewhat different. It was about protecting everyone, and the nation as a whole, the national heath. Also wasn't there an argument about prevention being better than treatment? Seems the whole idea behind vaccination has just gone out the window. Now its seems its okay to make it easy for some tight people to say no to them and bring back some disease. And the bill could go into hundreds if you have more than a couple kids, most people are still poor even if they're going on holiday.

Again showing your lack of understanding.
There's a reason these diseases are generally confined to a few locations unlike the likes of tb or polio.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

I don't really disagree with this purely because drug companies are literally fisting the NHS...like a bunch of buzzards circling a carcass.

They have to take some form of action.

 

[dowie]

Which is a prime example. Are new potatoes cheaper than a basic loaf of bread? Unless you grow your own then they certainly aren't.

You can buy a bag of potatoes pretty cheaply - sure new potatoes cost more as do fancy breads.

In terms of people's food shop neither potatoes or bread are generally expensive items.

 

[asim18]

Again showing your lack of understanding.
There's a reason these diseases are generally confined to a few locations unlike the likes of tb or polio.

And again a complete and utter strawman. I don't even know why I even bother replying to you.

What on earth has a disease being confined to a few locations got to do with anything? Also you haven't even posted the reason and just said "there's a reason"? What reason, and how does it affect a dude going to a disease ridden country and getting infected with something preventable???

As I said if you cant actually discuss and explain things then why troll? You're just running around shouting "bingo" when someone else disagrees with me yet you have no clue what the discussion is even about lol. As I already said, go away with your strawmans. Thx.

The day you post a retort which is longer than 2 lines, I swear I will be very happy.

 

[Amp34]

But the stance in the vaccine thread was somewhat different. It was about protecting everyone, and the nation as a whole, the national heath. Also wasn't there an argument about prevention being better than treatment? Seems the whole idea behind vaccination has just gone out the window. Now its seems its okay to make it easy for some tight people to say no to them and bring back some disease. And the bill could go into hundreds if you have more than a couple kids, most people are still poor even if they're going on holiday.

Some people were even advocating punishing people who aren't bothered about vaccines lol. But now the tone seems somewhat different.

If you're doing a great job of adhering to a vaccine schedule consisting of dozens of diseases for everyone, internally, then why suddenly break that chain open when you just need one or two extra vaccines for a dangerous zone???

There are two factors in play here.

1. The fact several of these diseases can only affect the person infected. There is no way you're going to spread Yellow Fever in the UK for example, so the public health danger is minimal to nil.

2. Risk factor. Various forms of Hepatitis (for example) aren't very common in the UK due to our hygiene standards. You increase your risk factor by going to places with poor hygiene (and/or water quality) and as such you are at greater risk of catching it, hence wanting a vaccine. This same risk factor is applied to within the UK as well. Many people that work in occupations that have a higher risk of contracting it (police, medical etc) are vaccinated because they have a higher risk factor. The risk factor for the general public in the UK is very low however, so there is no real need for mass vaccination.

The same with Rabies. The prevalence of rabies is so low in the UK mass vaccination is not needed, so only people with higher risk factors and people leaving the country to areas of higher risk really need it.

There are multiple facets to reducing infections disease. Some diseases are best controlled by vaccines, some by restrictions on bringing things into the country, some by hygiene standards and laws as well as a variety of others. Some, as already pointed out, are practically impossible to get in the UK.

 

[Haggisman]

Which is a prime example. Are new potatoes cheaper than a basic loaf of bread? Unless you grow your own then they certainly aren't.

Prices taken from Morrisons as of now, cheapest options & offers used in both cases where possible:

New Potatoes, 360g = £0.65, good for 3, maybe 4 servings, lets say 3 to be generous so, £0.22/120g serving
Smoked bacon rashers, 2x10 = £3.00, lets say 2 rashers per serving = £0.30/serving
Butter, 250g = £1.18, small amount needed, lets say 12.5g = £0.06/serving
Creme Fraiche, 300ml = £1.00, big tablespoonful, probably get 5-6 out of it = £0.20/serving.

Total for New potatoes with crispy bacon & creme fraiche = £0.78/serving.

Sandwich:

Savers white loaf: 720g = £0.36, approx 20 slices, so per double sandwich (2 slices) = £0.04
butter, same as above, £0.06
Savers mixed ham, 600g = £3.00, again about 20 slices in here, so with 2 slices in a sandwich = £0.30
Cheese, 2x350g for £3.50, approx 20 slices in a block, 4 slices needed per sandwich = £0.35

Total for a single cheese & ham sandwich = £0.75

So yeah, you're right, a cheap & cheerful lunch with new potatoes is a whole 3p more expensive, or ~£6.60/year. Bank breaking!

Change those new potatoes for standard white potatoes @ 2.5kg for £1.76 = £0.09/120g, or ~10p cheaper total.

A kilo of rice will cost you 42p and will do you for 15-20 lunches, chuck a stock cube in the water you boil it in, fry up a bit of chicken & some spring onions to go in it, sorted.

For variation, maybe a few eggs, onions, splash of tamari, some cumin, turmeric, coriander seed and taragon?

GF doesn't have to be more expensive, it only is if you decide to go for the "gluten alternative" breads etc.

 

[Dis86]

And again a complete and utter strawman. I don't even know why I even bother replying to you.

What on earth has a disease being confined to a few locations got to do with anything? Also you haven't even posted the reason and just said "there's a reason"? What reason, and how does it affect a dude going to a disease ridden country and getting infected with something preventable???

As I said if you cant actually discuss and explain things then why troll? You're just running around shouting "bingo" when someone else disagrees with me yet you have no clue what the discussion is even about lol. As I already said, go away with your strawmans. Thx.

The day you post a retort which is longer than 2 lines, I swear I will be very happy.

Can't be arsed to waste words on you. Thankfully amp can and is repeatedly explaining why you're wrong.

 

[Amp34]

You can buy a bag of potatoes pretty cheaply - sure new potatoes cost more as do fancy breads.

In terms of people's food shop neither potatoes or bread are generally expensive items.

Potatoes as a whole, but I'm not sure I'd want to eat a cold Jacket potato very often (having had to do it at times). You mentioned two things in that post as an example of alternatives and at least one was going to be more expensive.

What about something like a Jam Sandwich, with basic economy bread. A reasonable staple in many peoples lunches. If you can't eat bread then any alternative is likely to be higher cost.

 

[Amp34]

Prices taken from Morrisons as of now, cheapest options & offers used in both cases where possible:

New Potatoes, 360g = £0.65, good for 3, maybe 4 servings, lets say 3 to be generous so, £0.22/120g serving
Smoked bacon rashers, 2x10 = £3.00, lets say 2 rashers per serving = £0.30/serving
Butter, 250g = £1.18, small amount needed, lets say 12.5g = £0.06/serving
Creme Fraiche, 300ml = £1.00, big tablespoonful, probably get 5-6 out of it = £0.20/serving.

Total for New potatoes with crispy bacon & creme fraiche = £0.78/serving.

Sandwich:

Savers white loaf: 720g = £0.36, approx 20 slices, so per double sandwich (2 slices) = £0.04
butter, same as above, £0.06
Savers mixed ham, 600g = £3.00, again about 20 slices in here, so with 2 slices in a sandwich = £0.30
Cheese, 2x350g for £3.50, approx 20 slices in a block, 4 slices needed per sandwich = £0.35

Total for a single cheese & ham sandwich = £0.75

So yeah, you're right, a cheap & cheerful lunch with new potatoes is a whole 3p more expensive, or ~£6.60/year. Bank breaking!

Change those new potatoes for standard white potatoes @ 2.5kg for £1.76 = £0.09/120g, or ~10p cheaper total.

GF doesn't have to be cheaper, it only is if you decide to go for the "gluten alternative" breads etc.

Ham and Cheese? Going extravagant there are we?

You have just proved the point however. From your calculations new potatoes are 5.5x more expensive than bread.

 

[Dis86]

Ham and Cheese? Going extravagant there are we?

You have just proved the point however. From your calculations new potatoes are 5.5x more expensive than bread.

Potatoes aren't necessary however. They're a tasty starchy option.
Various legumes are healthier and incredibly cheap. Can buy split peas for next to nowt for a fair sized bag. Lentils too, which are also a good source of protein.

Rice is also a brilliant substitute. Cheap too. My local Chinese place sells 20 kilo sacks for a fiver.

 

[dowie]

Potatoes as a whole, but I'm not sure I'd want to eat a cold Jacket potato very often (having had to do it at times). You mentioned two things in that post as an example of alternatives and at least one was going to be more expensive.

What about something like a Jam Sandwich, with basic economy bread. A reasonable staple in many peoples lunches. If you can't eat bread then any alternative is likely to be higher cost.

I'm not sure I'd want to eat a sandwich every day either - I mentioned two things to give slightly more variety - likewise you can get more expensive bread too

As already pointed out potatoes and bread are both cheap and easily available, plenty of work places have microwaves too (yes, before you point it out - some workplaces won't). Not being able to eat bread doesn't mean you don't have access to cheap lunches. Of all the things people spend money on eating potatoes or maybe some salad made mostly with lettuce or some rice/grains/legumes/whatever isn't really much of a change in terms of cost. In fact bread spoils within a few days whereas a large bag of potatoes, rice etc.. can be acquired cheaply.


The fact is that going gluten free doesn't mean you *need* to substitute in gluten free versions of things that normally contain gluten, you can just stop eating things that contain gluten just as vegetarians don't need meat substitutes (veggie sausages etc..) in order to eat a vegetarian diet. It doesn't have to cost much either - there are plenty of food options available to people - simply because someone can't eat bread doesn't mean they're suddenly going to be significantly poorer as a result.

 

[asim18]

Can't be arsed to waste words on you. Thankfully amp can and is repeatedly explaining why you're wrong.

So you are admitting to being a complete and utter forum troll then. You just go around posting one line bait posts with no regards to, nor any interest in, posting about the subject at hand. Oh man

I find it particularly amusing how you enjoy wasting words baiting people but then never post anything longer than 2 lines, nothing is ever informative, never logical, never sequitur. Just random emotionally charged troll drivel.

Marvellous. You are a marvel.

Anyway, the fact that these vaccinations are for a preventable disease has not even been negated. The fact that some of these diseases aren't going to suddenly create a UK epidemic is also valid.

This is a deeper discusson going on and amp is explaining things and I am reading what he has to say, you are just whining and crying due to some underlying troll predespositions or something. The discussion here isn't even one of medicine, it is one more to do with economy!

 

[Haggisman]

Ham and Cheese? Going extravagant there are we?

You have just proved the point however. From your calculations new potatoes are 5.5x more expensive than bread.

The potatoes also didn't need to have the bacon & creme fraiche with them, and will fill you up more.

Personally I'd rather eat plain boiled potatoes than dry bread (although I realise that's a personal preference)

Those points aside, yes, I'll concede that cheap bread is about half the price of cheap potatoes.

 

[Dis86]

The potatoes also didn't need to have the bacon & creme fraiche with them, and will fill you up more.

Personally I'd rather eat plain boiled potatoes than dry bread (although I realise that's a personal preference)

Plain boiled potatoes with loads of butter...mmm

 

[Haggisman]

Plain boiled potatoes with loads of butter...mmm

Butter? BOILED?! think of the fractions of a penny in gas you could save by having them uncooked!

 

[Amp34]

It's not just about individual cost, rather the incremental cost over a period of time. Yes, new potatoes are only a little more expensive than bread (as an example), but add that across a range of foodstuff and that increase adds up. For people on low incomes an increase of say 20% in their weekly food shop is going to hurt, no matter which way you spin it - even if what they end up eating is actually healthier, which in some cases it may well be.

As I said, from personal experience, from someone that has never really eaten ready meals etc, my requirement for GF food has increased my grocery bill. The cost at uni was offset by the reduction in alcohol, and now I can afford to take up that extra cost. Many people won't be able to.

TBH traditional British food in general is pretty damn unhealthy, and a GF diet generally forces you towards eastern/southern (American) diets, which are quite nice. It's probably one of the reasons we have such an obesity epidemic in the west. Our reliance on processed foods filled with cheap crap, to conform to a price point.

 

[Dis86]

Butter? BOILED?! think of the fractions of a penny in gas you could save by having them uncooked!

Living the life of luxury here man!
Also used to have a friend who ate raw potatoes. Disgusting.

 

[Haggisman]

It's not just about individual cost, rather the incremental cost over a period of time. Yes, new potatoes are only a little more expensive than bread (as an example), but add that across a range of foodstuff and that increase adds up. For people on low incomes an increase of say 20% in their weekly food shop is going to hurt, no matter which way you spin it - even if what they end up eating is actually healthier, which in some cases it may well be.

As I said, from personal experience, from someone that has never really eaten ready meals etc, my requirement for GF food has increased my grocery bill. The cost at uni was offset by the reduction in alcohol, and now I can afford to take up that extra cost. Many people won't be able to.

Fair enough, I've been doing GF for the last ~6 months due to my lovely girlfriend's enthusiasm over a fad diet, and I can't say I've noticed an increase, but then we've always homecooked relatively healthy meals with decent ingredients, so I guess if you're not already at the bottom of the budget then it may not make much difference.

 

[dowie]

It's not just about individual cost, rather the incremental cost over a period of time. Yes, new potatoes are only a little more expensive than bread (as an example), but add that across a range of foodstuff and that increase adds up. For people on low incomes an increase of say 20% in their weekly food shop is going to hurt, no matter which way you spin it - even if what they end up eating is actually healthier, which in some cases it may well be.

It isn't about cost at all - there are plenty of cheap options available as already pointed out. Potatoes, rice, legumes etc.. are not expensive. Having to avoid certain foods doesn't necessitate suddenly buying other expensive foods.