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Nvidia DX12 driver holding back Ryzen

TheRealDeal said:
You can't laugh mate, you bought 2 of the pro variant :p. Should have bought a 295 :D:D:D. Hawaii the architecture that just keeps giving.

Edit: I do thank you and all the Fury users for being test subjects so they can work out all the flaws for Vega which i think will be a real HBM architecture.
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Yup :D

shankly1985 said:
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I lolled when he said xfire was a stuttery mess :D
 
Rroff said:
AMD doesn't have the same functionality in the drivers - nVidia does a lot of software stuff from hooking DX functions in memory, command lists, scheduling (they do some stuff in software that AMD does in hardware) - which can be a bit of a mixed blessing - potentially you can actually lower CPU usage in some cases via the optimisation and on faster CPUs and faster GPUs can actually get better results ironically from being able to optimise throughput to the GPU but when the CPU isn't fast enough this can cause significant slowdown. What the actual issue is here isn't clear but that would be my guess from the behaviour of that extra busy thread alongside the main game loop one and why this is causing an issue if it is the issue with Ryzen isn't clear also - it could be being penalised by some kind of scheduling/SMT conflict or a utilisation bottleneck somewhere due to being busier with the additional functionality that thread is doing, etc.
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Nvidia has disadvantage with dx12 resource binding . Needs more CPU power. Simple is that. If you take a look on the diagrams u will find it, i am lazy to google it :D

Well, i did it anyway :D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_levels_in_Direct3D#cite_note-resource-32

Nvidia needs high IPC .
 
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smogsy said:
very true,

my point was the oppsite could be in play to AMD has tuned their drivers for Ryzen
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Well no, given that Intel also lose performance when using nVidia DX12 drivers, we all know that, its been talked bout many times where nVidia lose 10 or 15 FPS in DX12

The fault is with nVidia, they don't have Asynchronous compute queues so the workload is still bottlenecked on a single thread, its why single core Mhz is still king on nVidia while AMD can spread the work across more threads.

nVidia are very good, much better than AMD at using low threaded pre-emption, its why AMD are much more bottlenecked in DX11.
That all get turned on its head once DX12 and Vulkan are involved, AMD architecture if far more paralleled than nVidia.

 
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siriq111 said:
Nvidia needs high IPC.
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...because their drivers are cheap crap. Let not forget, they took 5 months to fix the desktop 144hz flickering. 5 MONTHS. And some of you around here are writing that AMD drivers aren't good.......


Seriously that isn't an argument that NV needs high IPC. Nvidia drivers show the same crap performance on Broadwel-E & Haswell-E, not only Ryzen.
And your statement means that affects the related quad core CPUs also in the 2xxx,3xxx,4xxx series.

So is not a new issue that miraculously appeared with Ryzen/Kabylake, but exists years now then and NV hasn't done anything to fix it.

Which makes my initial statement true. Nvidia is selling overpriced crap with minimal driver support.
 
Panos said:
...because their drivers are cheap crap. Let not forget, they took 5 months to fix the desktop 144hz flickering. 5 MONTHS. And some of you around here are writing that AMD drivers aren't good.......


Seriously that isn't an argument that NV needs high IPC. Nvidia drivers show the same crap performance on Broadwel-E & Haswell-E, not only Ryzen.
And your statement means that affects the related quad core CPUs also in the 2xxx,3xxx,4xxx series.

So is not a new issue that miraculously appeared with Ryzen/Kabylake, but exists years now then and NV hasn't done anything to fix it.

Which makes my initial statement true. Nvidia is selling overpriced crap with minimal driver support.
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My 6850K does a fine job coupled with a GTX 1080.
 
Gregster said:
My 6850K does a fine job coupled with a GTX 1080.
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Seems he is just looking for any excuse to bad mouth nVidia - the 144Hz flicker was a more complex issue than it appears on the surface that didn't affect everyone and took time to fully narrow down the causes of.
 
humbug said:
Well no, given that Intel also lose performance when using nVidia DX12 drivers, we all know that, its been talked bout many times where nVidia lose 10 or 15 FPS in DX12

The fault is with nVidia, they don't have Asynchronous compute queues so the workload is still bottlenecked on a single thread, its why single core Mhz is still king on nVidia while AMD can spread the work across more threads.

nVidia are very good, much better than AMD at using low threaded pre-emption, its why AMD are much more bottlenecked in DX11.
That all get turned on its head once DX12 and Vulkan are involved, AMD architecture if far more paralleled than nVidia.

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lol humbug always defending AMD & putting blame on Nvidia its quite fun to watch :D

Do NVidia lose FPS in DX12, Yes does it mean they are killing ryzen performance on purpose? no.

Anyway,
If people stop arguing with each other over AMD vs NVidia you will see at this all new information not enough testing has been done
you cannot put blame anywhere.

What you can say & is
my theory is AMD+AMD has certain optimizations that we do not know about just yet.
AMD has been designing Ryzen for many years & its possible that they designed hardware & implemented software in a way to Make sure AMD+AMD has the most potential together than apart.

Everyone is ready to blame others(not just you) For something they know very little about. we do have enough information to put any blame anywhere.

to me this thread is now pointless, its good findings, conclusive? no. do we need more information more people to test other games? Yes
 
Note I'm not talking about Ryzen here as obviously it's just released and needs driver work but if anyone says AMD is great at DX12 but crap at DX11, while at the same time NV's DX12 is crap and great at DX11, that's only bigging up AMD and slating NV, it's not saying both are good at one but crap at the other?

How many times are we to witness pap DX12/11 performance across both vendors with one win a piece before it sinks in?
 
smogsy said:
lol humbug always defending AMD & putting blame on Nvidia its quite fun to watch :D

Do NVidia lose FPS in DX12, Yes does it mean they are killing ryzen performance on purpose? no.

Anyway,
If people stop arguing with each other over AMD vs NVidia you will see at this all new information not enough testing has been done
you cannot put blame anywhere.

What you can say & is
my theory is AMD+AMD has certain optimizations that we do not know about just yet.
AMD has been designing Ryzen for many years & its possible that they designed hardware & implemented software in a way to Make sure AMD+AMD has the most potential together than apart.

Everyone is ready to blame others(not just you) For something they know very little about. we do have enough information to put any blame anywhere.

to me this thread is now pointless, its good findings, conclusive? no. do we need more information more people to test other games? Yes
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The video in post 123 has a pretty good, likely, explanation though it isn't the whole story or backed up conclusively its a solid theory based on fact. It could simply be a compatibility issue with the software scheduling way nVidia despatch workload or it could be something that needs more explaining.
 
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