Advice with dealing with employer over accident

Union rep is none existant here im afraid else i would have gone straight to them.

I think they're playing more on the "but you was okay yesterday" card by the phonecall i had with them earlier explaining i won't be working today and i am seeing a doctor today
 
Often injuries can get worse once muscles have rested at night and bruising has developed.

No different from doing Physical exercise and feeling it the next day. Surely an employer realises this?
 
Delayed soreness is fairly common, as per above with the likes of exercise. I had an accident while working several years ago, at the time I was ok, a little shaken but ok. The following day though was a whole different ball game. Soft tissue damage and an extremely sore shoulder resulted in me being off work for 3 weeks.
 
You can't be sacked for it. The amount of people who say "I thought I'd push on, it wasn't until I woke up that I felt sore" is the majority rather than the minority. In fact, if someone had an injury at work and demanded to go to hospital I'd be automatically thinking claim.

It depends how far you wish to pursue this, but you have options. As you are new to the organisation, you can probably forget any form of future if you put in a civil claim but really, you are entitled to compensation if you can prove negligence. You can "go nuclear" and try to prove they broke workplace H&S laws, but I'd keep from steaming in with that on day 1.

Now, I don't encourage people to put claims in (I've seen a lot where the employee is at fault and they try their luck for a payout) but in this instance, if it's affecting your quality of life and stopping you from working then I'd say it's justified.

To prove negligence in a civil claim you need to prove the following:
  1. They owed you a duty of care
  2. You were injured and suffered some form of loss
  3. That the loss you suffered was foreseeable
Clearly, you can answer "yes" to questions 1 and 2, so you need to think.. was the trailing cable a foreseeable hazard? The answer is also, yes.

Now, I'm coming at this from a chartered safety professional angle and I will say that you can easily win this case if you ask the right questions. Most cases that I've dealt with go through a solicitor (I see them from the defence side), which is sensible but you could ask the same questions yourself if you were confident in what you're asking for. I'd personally advise you to stick to a solicitor specialising in workplace injury claims, unless funds are really low.

If your solicitor asks them for these items then you will be surprised how many organisations would back down immediately (some of them you have but I wanted to listed everything I'd be looking for in a case):
  • Timeline of events
  • Witness statements
  • FIT note / details of injury
  • Return to work interview detailing limitations of what you can/can't do whilst injured
  • Training records (induction records countersigned by a supervisor, if you are new)
  • Method statement for the task you were performing at the time of the incident
  • Risk assessment(s) - pre and post incident*
  • Evidence that risks were communicated to you prior to starting (signed for by you)*
  • Incident investigation findings
  • Incident statistics for this type of incident
  • Lighting survey for the area
CCTV would be useful, but you shouldn't rely on it. I've starred the most important parts that most organisations fall down on.

I can add more to this if needed :)
 
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jsmoke said:
What's the actually law that says you can't be sacked?
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I know what you're doing. So I ask you this; what is the law that says you can?

He's had an injury at work, as a result he is now taking time off. If they simply binned him and said "lolunlucky" he'd be within his rights to claim unfair dismissal, no?
 
Threaten to go to one of those annoying injury lawyers you see on TV :p

If theres no union rep, become the union rep. Helped someone I work with lol. They didn't dare touch him after that, because he could conjure up all kinds of stress and paperwork for management and there's nothing they could do about it.

But you would think that being an accident which they might be liable for, they wouldn't be pushing it. Because if it went to court and it IS their fault they have no chance.
 
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EVH said:
I know what you're doing. So I ask you this; what is the law that says you can?

He's had an injury at work, as a result he is now taking time off. If they simply binned him and said "lolunlucky" he'd be within his rights to claim unfair dismissal, no?
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Not unfair dismissal, no - there's a two year qualifying period.
Probably (IANAL) protected elsewhere if sacked for taking sick days after a workplace accident, though.
 
If he's been there less than 2 years, then can't they just say "Sorry Unicorn, it's just not working out" and pay him whatever his notice period is? (likely to be on a probationary period, so won't be much)
 
I'm surprised a pretty big company (assumed by being a car manufacturer) is acting in such a shoddy way after an accident tbh, I would have thought the HR dept would be tearing their hair out with that response today
 
Seen doctor iv torn ligaments in my groin and some damage to my hip and lower back. Been told self certify and take painkillers and come back once my 7 days self certify is up if i still need too and have no returned to work
Got it in writing from doctor and all the proof i need for my employer should it be needed.

Simple bits of it are its unlikely i will be back at work this week from what doctor said. So thats 3 days down drain money wise but theres more to life than pay.
I am tempted to contact HR and explain situation but its not proper procedure apparently i must report everything to my area ops leader or team leader, You usually can't even get to speak to HR and must request appointments through your floor managers which is usually declined anyhow (from what other colleagues say, not needed them yet)

Im quite doubtful HR even know about it, Health and safety should know with it being in accident book but iv had no follow ups today or yesterday since accident
 
EVH said:
Snip
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Appreciate all the information, It seems they may be wise not to push too far on this then or take it further regarding disciplinary/sacking. If they do ill soon make another thread and see what happens

Nasher said:
Threaten to go to one of those annoying injury lawyers you see on TV :p

If theres no union rep, become the union rep. Helped someone I work with lol. They didn't dare touch him after that, because he could conjure up all kinds of stress and paperwork for management and there's nothing they could do about it.

But you would think that being an accident which they might be liable for, they wouldn't be pushing it. Because if it went to court and it IS their fault they have no chance.
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Thinking it over you could see the sheer terror on both managers faces when it had happened and the airlines, cables etc was all quickly tidied away and people were told they should not be like that.

Freakbro said:
I'm surprised a pretty big company (assumed by being a car manufacturer) is acting in such a shoddy way after an accident tbh, I would have thought the HR dept would be tearing their hair out with that response today
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Van manufacturer, I fell quite far in all honesty. But yes its madness
 
Worth adding that the statute of limitations for claims is 3 years. If the job doesn't get better or you leave there's nothing stopping you chucking in a claim.

In my experience this will mean your claim is even more successful, providing you keep all your info and timelines straight.

Make of that what you will, but it's not uncommon for disgruntled ex-employees to put in claims. The fact they had a snap reaction and weren't proactively doing stuff says a lot about their culture.
 
EVH said:
Worth adding that the statute of limitations for claims is 3 years. If the job doesn't get better or you leave there's nothing stopping you chucking in a claim.

In my experience this will mean your claim is even more successful, providing you keep all your info and timelines straight.

Make of that what you will, but it's not uncommon for disgruntled ex-employees to put in claims. The fact they had a snap reaction and weren't proactively doing stuff says a lot about their culture.
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Even more reason to keep quiet id imagine, I don't get the hand there trying to play by being the bully employer when iv got the upper hand in some terms.


Would it be advisable to keep communications at phone calls during my time off if need anymore or would going in to speak with hr and my line managers be a good idea?
 
Unicorn said:
Id of loved to of gone back in, I don't like letting myself down or the lads im working with. We all have a specific job to get done to get the vehicles out the door on time.
But im in too much pain today to consider climbing around/under and over vehicles.

I don't honestly know what to expect or what to do, Ill only return when i feel comfortable to do so which id love to be tomorrow if possible but i don't know yet. The longer this goes on the worse i imagine the repercussions at work may be for me
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There are two rational approaches for an employer to take regarding injured employees:

1) Allow them to take medical leave as required until they are healed without trying to coerce them into working while injured. This is better for the employer overall, so they should do this even if they don't give a damn about their employees. Injured employees who carry on working are more likely to work less effectively for longer due to their injury not healing as quickly and may end up permanently injured as a result of working while injured. They are also more likely to be a factor in further injuries and/or property damage and/or incorrectly done work. What if, for example, your leg gives out while you're carrying something?

2) Sack them and replace them with another person the employer regards as another disposible work unit. A sociopathic approach, but still rational.

What's not rational is the sadly common approach of coercing injured people into working. That makes no sense from any rational perspective, from sociopathic to superhuman compassion and everything in between.

You definitely need medical advice and you very likely need legal advice (which will probably require the medical advice since that's legally relevant). You have few rights, but at least we're still in the EU so you still have some rights. If you decide to try rational discussion first (which is a good idea IMO), have a witness and/or a recording. Always remember that your employer is not your friend. Your immediate superior in the hierarchy might be, but they're not your employer unless they own the business.

Sick pay is an example of how the bottom end of employment has become far worse in recent years. When I started work, my employer gave full pay from the 1st day off and for a period of up to 6 months depending on length of service. Now their terms of employment don't require them to pay any sick pay at all. You might get company sick pay after 3 unpaid days and you will get at least SSP after 3 days, but of course a person who's working at the bottom end of employment usually can't live on SSP at all and will probably be in serious trouble right away just from the 3 days with no pay.
 
I'd be writing down dates of visits to your GP, plus keeping record of all the communications with your employer.

If they try to argue you're taking the pee, you'll have some backup if you have written the timeline down and can account for your time.

A standard tactic for those looking to boost their claim is to argue stress related "loss". In other words, they'll say the incident was traumatic and that it created stress through lack of ability to work. As the employer won't be able to prove that you see a lot of claimants going to their GP and saying they are stressed. I wouldn't do it but again... I've seen many claims with stress tacked on.

Try to deal with it amicably but know that you could probably bend them over. Don't let them bully you in to coming back to work if you aren't fully fit. If you suffer long term injury, you're the one who has to live with it.
 
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