Advice with dealing with employer over accident

[Angilion]

Seen doctor iv torn ligaments in my groin and some damage to my hip and lower back. Been told self certify and take painkillers and come back once my 7 days self certify is up if i still need too and have no returned to work
Got it in writing from doctor and all the proof i need for my employer should it be needed.

Simple bits of it are its unlikely i will be back at work this week from what doctor said. So thats 3 days down drain money wise but theres more to life than pay.
I am tempted to contact HR and explain situation but its not proper procedure apparently i must report everything to my area ops leader or team leader, You usually can't even get to speak to HR and must request appointments through your floor managers which is usually declined anyhow (from what other colleagues say, not needed them yet)

Im quite doubtful HR even know about it, Health and safety should know with it being in accident book but iv had no follow ups today or yesterday since accident

Ah, so the company is taking the deliberate ignorance route to suppress legitimate issues. Not a good sign, but to be expected nowadays.

We joke about H&S and suchlike being silly where I work (for example, if we buy milk we need to fill out a form in triplicate stating that milk contains milk and file it in three places), but it's a lot better than is required nowadays. I could phone HR directly, for example. The phone number is displayed in staff areas and it's company policy that the option is available. The safety checks and risk assessment paperwork is so thorough that it's heavy enough for moving the risk assessment paperwork to have a risk assessment If there was an accident like yours, the person would not be expected to carry on working and would be encouraged not to. They'd probably be given a lift or taxi to a local walk-in clinic right away. We have good local management.

 

[Unicorn]

Ah, so the company is taking the deliberate ignorance route to suppress legitimate issues. Not a good sign, but to be expected nowadays.

We joke about H&S and suchlike being silly where I work (for example, if we buy milk we need to fill out a form in triplicate stating that milk contains milk and file it in three places), but it's a lot better than is required nowadays. I could phone HR directly, for example. The phone number is displayed in staff areas and it's company policy that the option is available. The safety checks and risk assessment paperwork is so thorough that it's heavy enough for moving the risk assessment paperwork to have a risk assessment If there was an accident like yours, the person would not be expected to carry on working and would be encouraged not to. They'd probably be given a lift or taxi to a local walk-in clinic right away. We have good local management.

Iv never seen a risk assessment for my job, iv never seen a method statement.
Hell my training was half a day shadowing the guy i was replacing and a quick show of were my closest fire exit is.

I wish i had your work style seems nothing should go wrong but if it does then it will be addressed

 

[Angilion]

Iv never seen a risk assessment for my job, iv never seen a method statement.
Hell my training was half a day shadowing the guy i was replacing and a quick show of were my closest fire exit is.

I wish i had your work style seems nothing should go wrong but if it does then it will be addressed

It's probably more profitable for the company, so it really should be the norm even if employees are not considered as people.

In my workplace new employees aren't left alone in the building until they've had a guided tour of every fire exit. All exit routes are very well marked of course, but you'd be walked around them anyway and given a map with exits marked. You might well be dropped in with no training other than a brief shadowing, but not for any work that had any risks you wouldn't have in day to day life and not for many risks that you would have in daily life. For example, I wasn't allowed to use a stepladder at work until I had completed formal ladder training and passed the assessment. Obviously I've used a stepladder at home numerous times, but that didn't count. I wasn't supposed to lift more than 3Kg until I had completed manual safe handling training, although in practice that isn't rigidly followed because it's such a low cut-off point. There is a degree of excessive carefulness that can be irritating, but I wholeheartedly prefer that to not enough care. Besides, it's funny to see things like formal chemical usage risk assessment for washing up. It's there in the risk assessment paperwork - I've seen it. And it's for one specific brand of washing up liquid and only that one. If we bought a different brand of washing up liquid, another chemical usage risk assessment would have to be done. And it would be. I've seen it done for glass cleaner. Off the shelf domestic glass cleaner from a local supermarket.

And it does work. The worst staff injury from an accident that I can recall in 25 years was a cut on a person's calf that left a thin line of scarring but no other damage. I broke a toe some years back. I somehow managed to do it while moving a chair. It wasn't even a heavy chair. I was offered a free taxi to a walk-in centre, but I've broken a toe before and know the drill. I wouldn't waste a nurse's time with it. It was only a little toe. Strapping it to the next toe is all that's required. Surprisingly inconvenient though. I didn't know how much you use your toes when walking until I broke one.

EDIT: I've just thought of a better example. I have a damaged knee. A couple of years ago it had reached a pretty bad level and one day at work I was having trouble with stairs at the end of the first section of a split shift. My manager sent me to get medical attention right away and covered my job himself until I got back an hour or so into the second section of the split shift.

There are some issues with my employer, but it's a lot better than many and local management has always been very good.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

That sounds like a nightmare ^

For reference, I manage the HS for a power station at one of the world's largest companies (0 incidents in 4 years, last was a contractor!) and a lot of what you describe is someone trying to do the right thing and overdoing it. For example, the manual handling guidelines give a 15kg at waist height "guideline" figure.. the fact you need something at 3kg is way OTT and not what H&S should be about. If anything, it gives us a bad rep! See page 8, http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg143.pdf

CoSHH assessments are typically done for all "harmful" substances. Washing up liquid? I've seen it done but you have to draw the line or you'll end up with tippex and marker pens!

 

[Angilion]

That sounds like a nightmare ^

For reference, I manage the HS for a power station at one of the world's largest companies (0 incidents in 4 years, last was a contractor!) and a lot of what you describe is someone trying to do the right thing and overdoing it. For example, the manual handling guidelines give a 15kg at waist height "guideline" figure.. the fact you need something at 3kg is way OTT and not what H&S should be about. If anything, it gives us a bad rep! See page 8, http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg143.pdf

Different context, though. Those guidlines are for unaided lifting and lowering after manual safe handling training. That's the same at my workplace. The "Is that a giant ***** strapped to their navel?" diagram of weights at different heights and distances in the document you linked to is the same one used at my workplace. I was referring to before manual safe handling training. Note that the guidelines specify 3Kg for shoulder or ankle height at arm's length for a small woman. So the company's cutoff point for before training is just the worst case scenario for the official guidelines, which isn't as foolishly over the top as it might first seem.

In practice, after training the limits come down to good practice and reasonable assessment by the person doing the lifting/carrying.

CoSHH assessments are typically done for all "harmful" substances. Washing up liquid? I've seen it done but you have to draw the line or you'll end up with tippex and marker pens!

If those are done in my workplace next week I'll know they're reading this thread

 

[Unicorn]

CoSHH assessments are typically done for all "harmful" substances. Washing up liquid? I've seen it done but you have to draw the line or you'll end up with tippex and marker pens!

Iv seen cleaners using bleach, detol, fairy, windex on sites with coshh assessments. It happens. Maybe it's too far maybe it's covering all bases (this was on an e.on site though) maybe there a pretty smart company. I enjoyed working on there sites they was clearly well managed

 

[Luke]

Always, always, always go to the hospital.

NO, NO a million times NO.....

Go if you need to, not as a safety net against employment issues. The system is falling over and there is no benefit to the OP in going unless he felt it was necessary to rectify an injury. An employer doesn't give a monkeys if the employee goes to hospital, it doesn't tick an HR box which saves the employee from any threat of dismissal and just wastes his and the hospitals time.

 

[nick.lidgett]

NO, NO a million times NO.....

Go if you need to, not as a safety net against employment issues. The system is falling over and there is no benefit to the OP in going unless he felt it was necessary to rectify an injury. An employer doesn't give a monkeys if the employee goes to hospital, it doesn't tick an HR box which saves the employee from any threat of dismissal and just wastes his and the hospitals time.

Dont you worry your pretty little head about the "system". It is highly recommended by organisations like Citizens Advice that anybody involved in an accident at work goes immediately to a Doctor. Now I dont know about your GP but I wouldnt be able to get to see mine for at least 3-4 days, so that leaves the A and E department or an emergency walk in clinic.

In this instance the OP clearly hurt himself, he spent the rest of his shift in pain and was unfit for work the next day, by turning down his employers suggestion on going to the Hospital he may have harmed his chances of compensation or benefits if the injury turns out to be lasting.

Its the world that we live in, arse covering at every turn.

 

[eatcustard]

Did you put the accident in the accident book?

 

[Luke]

Dont you worry your pretty little head about the "system".

Would you like to be a little more patronising?

I work in the "system" and it is precisely that attitude that is contributing to packed waiting rooms, missed targets and huge fines which further degrade care provision.
If he felt like he needed to be seen there are options other than A&E, such as the walk in centre as you mentioned. That said, it doesn't make the slightest difference unless a defined injury is found, which is exactly what the OP discovered when he did the right thing and waited to see if it got better, and then went to his GP.

 

[Brookert]

The only real answer to the gp vs A&E debate is an effective 111 service to get people to the right care. 'effective' is the bit we are missing so far.

 

[bJN]

Iv seen cleaners using bleach, detol, fairy, windex on sites with coshh assessments. It happens. Maybe it's too far maybe it's covering all bases (this was on an e.on site though) maybe there a pretty smart company. I enjoyed working on there sites they was clearly well managed

I kid you not, there used to be a COSHH assessment for water where I work (oil & gas)...

 

[SilverTongue]

Would you like to be a little more patronising?

I work in the "system" and it is precisely that attitude that is contributing to packed waiting rooms, missed targets and huge fines which further degrade care provision.
If he felt like he needed to be seen there are options other than A&E, such as the walk in centre as you mentioned. That said, it doesn't make the slightest difference unless a defined injury is found, which is exactly what the OP discovered when he did the right thing and waited to see if it got better, and then went to his GP.

However, sure following an Accident the best place to go is Accident & Emergency

 

[Deleted member 651465]

However, sure following an Accident the best place to go is Accident & Emergency

Actually, you'll find many A&E departments are re-branding as ED or "emergency department" because there are simply too many idiots with grazed knees and sore arms turn up after any form of accident.

A&E is strictly for life and death. MIU or minor injury units are for the accidents 95% of people think of (even broken bones).

 

["andy"]

I work for a huge company and I suppose in fairly dangerous environment similar to the op

Whenever someone has an accident the employer will act as though they are in the right and that people are taking the mick or are in the wrong.

They do things such as suspending sick pay to try to make the person come back to work so that the accident isn't deemed big enough to get any further than the depots 'top office'

They continue this line of ignorance and have a sort of "if you want to claim we will see you in court" attitude.

Some will be worried by this and back down , others will keep going because they realise things aren't right.

The employer then fails to produce one of the things mentioned in EVHs points... Every single time. Not because they don't do them but because they are just totally useless at keeping important information , evidence etc. I guess it's easier for them to just do the next part....

Which is offer an out of court settlement... But never admit they are wrong. Never apologise.


Obviously you will be worried op , but It sounds like it was clearly them in the wrong and luckily we live and work in a country that protects employees when it comes to health and safety.

The only thing I would worry about is getting back to full health ! It takes aslong as it takes ! At our work they would be offering us physio etc to speed things up...

 

[Luke]

Actually, you'll find many A&E departments are re-branding as ED or "emergency department" because there are simply too many idiots with grazed knees and sore arms turn up after any form of accident.

A&E is strictly for life and death. MIU or minor injury units are for the accidents 95% of people think of (even broken bones).

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Unicorn]

Updates really. So I went to see them today at there request, I was interviewed over the accident and asked to give my account and certify what's in the accident book is correct which it was, they wanted the doctors information and what he's told me which I refused to give them his information other than my gp practise and what information he gave on my injury.

They tried (stupidly) to read a piece of paperwork to me and missed some key points out and said that's all the info I needed. It was actually some kind of "by signing this I give up all legal recourse as I accept the companies action" as I told them I'd read before signing and this was thrown back at them. Was told unless I signed it I won't be paid for any of my days off until ssp starts.

So it seems I may be fighting them on this.

 

[scottomus0]

hows it all panning out?

 

[Unicorn]

Okay, had a few meetings over it iv returned to work. Not too much fuss they've tried to brush it under carpet in reality, no warning or anything from what I know of but they won't pay the days I missed. We shall see when I speak with HR next

 

[Roar87]

I would claim if I were you and look for a new company, they clearly don't give a crap about their employees so treat them in kind.