Britain's decline - is money holding us at ransom?

[francky]

Debt based economy, where the government currently has to pay nearly 10% of its Tax revenue (43 billion per year) just to service the interest it owes.....while this figure continues to grow year on year.....what happens, services and the quality of life for people that rely on the state begins to decline, as they cut services and welfare to make sure the deficit between outgoing payments and income tax revenue is shrinking...as if they don't, the borrowing continues to grow and thus the figure of the payment to cover the interest will also grow.

The upper middle class and the rich aren't affected, as their reliance on the state is minimal as they mostly use private education, health care etc.

Its a bit like a family spending more than they earn each month and putting the extra on credit cards, which then in turn increases their monthly outgoings.....a viscous circle.

 

[Pipe & Slippers]

My take on the bigger factors is:

• Flat and ageing population - in the past the population was growing and the state was like a big Ponzi scheme with a large pool of economically active people supporting a smaller pool. That smaller pool has now become significantly larger, and by not abandoning the economically inactive we demonstrate the sort of society most of us want. This answers many of the points the OP makes
• Individualism is on the rise - as we've got materially richer, we begin to care less about society as a whole, giving us the impetus to stop funding many things that in the past we would have thought of as essential
• Gloablisation has increased financial pressure in all sorts of ways both at a national and individual level. I think the big problem with it is those that have benefitted are big business and the elite that run them. I don't think there's been enough trickle down effect*. It's also allowed businesses (eg Amazon, Google, Starbucks etc) to avoid taxes leaving someone else to pick up the tab (one stat I read was that the tax take in the US 30 years ago was 21% from business - now its 9%) - someone's got to make up the shortfall somewhere

*Been great for an awful lot of people in the developing world though, poverty levels are the lowest they've ever been

As for blaming 'money', I'm not sure that follows. Money's only useful for what it can get you

One of the effects of what I've said is that our personal incomes have flatlined in real terms. Up to the mid '00s we got used to ever increasing wealth. Now that's stopped for most. The Financial Crisis hasn't helped either. Most thought a shortlived recession would be replaced by years of growth and we'd be back to where we were after a few years. Here we are ~10 years later waiting for the better times

One last thought, if money is holding us to ransom, what are we going to use to pay that ransom....

 

[Nasher]

Problem is all our leaders are loaded, so they don't give a **** if they screw up as they have no personal stake in it. They will just go and retire on a private island somewhere. If they e.g. only allowed MPs to earn the average wage things would be very different.

Forget pensions and savings for our generation. They won't exist by the time we get to retirement age. I fully expect there to be some kind of revolution/civil unrest against the top 1% in the coming decades, it's almost inevitable now.

 

[POB]

- banks closing I guess so that the bosses can keep their £8m/year wages

We don't need high street banks. They serve no practical purpose.

 

[zoomee]

we've always got money for war but none to look after ourselves.

Its a disgusting world we live in when our priorities are upside down.

 

[Rifte]

Too much debt and too much deadweight within the population .

The outlook isn't great.

 

[smogsy]

I'm not really looking for a Brexit debate as the current situation pre-dates last year's referendum. We're one of the world's richest nations. More food is farmed, technologies have moved on, more things have been invented around the world. More medicine and new procedures have helped combat illnesses and emergencies. We're trying to head towards equality too. Therefore life should be getting better, but AIBU to think that it isn't for most of us?

What's the one thing that is holding us at ransom? Money! Those shiny bits of metal, sheets of paper and balances shown on computer screens.

- libraries disappearing or at best being run by volunteers
- council amenities disappearing, yet council tax rises
- hospital waiting lists getting longer
- same-day GP appointment no longer exist
- above-inflation rail fares and disgruntled staff going on strikes
- below-inflation pay rises or no pay rise at all
- larger classroom sizes and teacher strikes
- public transport getting cut affecting the isolated and disabled
- able-bodied / drivers being punished too for fuel / insurance increases
- prison officers being beaten up by inmates due to fewer staff numbers
- banks closing I guess so that the bosses can keep their £8m/year wages
- similar to bankers, record label bosses are killing the clubbing / gig scene due to extortionate DJ and band costs

Then there's university. The previous academic generation got given grants. My dad, when graduated, was 1 in 20 and thus was sought after and got relevant jobs in his field. This generation had to pay tuition fees and build up loans. Plus, 1 in 2 people nowadays are graduates, so we are as common as muck, undesirables, who end up in 6th form type jobs or as admins.

All of this, again, because of those shiny bits of metal, and yet I think there is enough people, resources and food in principle to keep us all on an even keel. I know this doesn't affect some of the members here as it's a fairly conservative forum. It's really geared towards the average and less well off on here (a sizely chunk of the UK) and what do you think of this? I think a lot of us are being penalised because of money.

the following can all come down to us reproducing to fast
- hospital waiting lists getting longer
- same-day GP appointment no longer exist
- larger classroom sizes and teacher strikes

id love a 1 child law in the UK, far to many
teen moms
parents with far to many children (5+)
people going to the GP for a bloody cold....

 

[jsmoke]

1 chav law.

 

[jsmoke]

Interesting docu.

Also, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-care-Lamborghinis-clamped-shop-Harrods.html

 

[V F]

I was curious to see the views and responses on Youtube, jsmoke. Shocking! 278 views and not one response. Seems joe public doesn't care.

 

[jsmoke]

Seems not.

 

[do_ron_ron]

I'm not really looking for a Brexit debate as the current situation pre-dates last year's referendum. We're one of the world's richest nations. More food is farmed, technologies have moved on, more things have been invented around the world. More medicine and new procedures have helped combat illnesses and emergencies. We're trying to head towards equality too. Therefore life should be getting better, but AIBU to think that it isn't for most of us?

What's the one thing that is holding us at ransom? Money! Those shiny bits of metal, sheets of paper and balances shown on computer screens.

- libraries disappearing or at best being run by volunteers
- council amenities disappearing, yet council tax rises
- hospital waiting lists getting longer
- same-day GP appointment no longer exist
- above-inflation rail fares and disgruntled staff going on strikes
- below-inflation pay rises or no pay rise at all
- larger classroom sizes and teacher strikes
- public transport getting cut affecting the isolated and disabled
- able-bodied / drivers being punished too for fuel / insurance increases
- prison officers being beaten up by inmates due to fewer staff numbers
- banks closing I guess so that the bosses can keep their £8m/year wages
- similar to bankers, record label bosses are killing the clubbing / gig scene due to extortionate DJ and band costs

Then there's university. The previous academic generation got given grants. My dad, when graduated, was 1 in 20 and thus was sought after and got relevant jobs in his field. This generation had to pay tuition fees and build up loans. Plus, 1 in 2 people nowadays are graduates, so we are as common as muck, undesirables, who end up in 6th form type jobs or as admins.

All of this, again, because of those shiny bits of metal, and yet I think there is enough people, resources and food in principle to keep us all on an even keel. I know this doesn't affect some of the members here as it's a fairly conservative forum. It's really geared towards the average and less well off on here (a sizely chunk of the UK) and what do you think of this? I think a lot of us are being penalised because of money.

No you are penalised by the ideological dogma of the far right of the Tory Party. They cater for the 5-10% while penalising the rest.

- libraries disappearing or at best being run by volunteers
- council amenities disappearing, yet council tax rises
- public transport getting cut affecting the isolated and disabled

Hitting services mainly used by the 90% while giving tax cuts to the 10%

- hospital waiting lists getting longer
- same-day GP appointment no longer exist

As the Tonight prog showed 62000 fewer beds than 10 years ago, 25000 fewer nurses, less doctors, 6000 fewer beds for mentally ill patients. Reorganisation to fragment the service and selling off bits of it. All politically driven.

- above-inflation rail fares and disgruntled staff going on strikes

The way it was privatised paved the way for this. A mess from beginning to end.

- below-inflation pay rises or no pay rise at all

Got to get money for the tax haven Britain.

- larger classroom sizes and teacher strikes

Privation of the schools. Now any group can run schools for profit while not ensuring that food standards are adhered to. This, of course allows food manufacturers to set up machines to charge for snacks so the schools can make some more cash.

- able-bodied / drivers being punished too for fuel / insurance increases

World reasons as well as Govt taxes.

- prison officers being beaten up by inmates due to fewer staff numbers

Reduced numbers of PO to cater for more inmates. Selling off prisons to groups that can have officers with minimal training(cheaper)

- banks closing I guess so that the bosses can keep their £8m/year wages

Internet banking increasing.

- similar to bankers, record label bosses are killing the clubbing / gig scene due to extortionate DJ and band costs

People extracting the max.

Then there's university. The previous academic generation got given grants. My dad, when graduated, was 1 in 20 and thus was sought after and got relevant jobs in his field. This generation had to pay tuition fees and build up loans. Plus, 1 in 2 people nowadays are graduates, so we are as common as muck, undesirables, who end up in 6th form type jobs or as admins.

If you cannot work out why a system that had 4-5% in University with a system designed to discourage going to Uni was affordable while a system which encourages all to go to Uni and results in 50% going is not affordable then you are not Uni material. Flood the market with graduates and employers who previously asked for GCSE's can now ask for a Graduate for very little more.

 

[do_ron_ron]

Britain's golden age came about based on four strong pillars; nation, family, property and religion. Each one has been, or is in the process of being torn down by globalists. If we don't change course we'll end up being part of the third world, with a handful of very wealthy billionaires controlling the country and everyone else paying them rent.

Nation - when you get a party setting one group against another for political gains then you have no nation.
Family - fragmented by desire to get the latest bauble while disregarding family. UK Indian/Chinese etc still have some family ties.
Property - Thatcher selling off council houses and not allowing more to be built and carried on by future Govts has created a huge demand for low cost houses so prices rise well above what workers with depressed wages can afford. Politically driven.
Religion - did for themselves with the church protecting their paedo's and brutality with church run organisations. Plus education eating into church myths. Becoming irrelevant.

Never been a 'golden age'. Ask 100 people they will give you 100 different times of this so called 'golden age'.

a handful of very wealthy billionaires controlling the country and everyone else paying them rent

They control the media so can control some people's thought processes. The rest is happening.

Unless you change course even the lumpen people will eventually rise up and chaos will ensue.

 

[Energize]

This is all what happens when we allow the government to control our health and education system unfortunately.

Libraries though, are pretty redundant now no? Certainly as a repository of information with the internet being around.

 

[Nasher]

we've always got money for war but none to look after ourselves.

Its a disgusting world we live in when our priorities are upside down.

And we're still giving away billions in "foreign aid", which seems to be doing no good what so ever :/

India used it to build a space program ffs

 

[Vonhelmet]

Libraries though, are pretty redundant now no? Certainly as a repository of information with the internet being around.

That assumes that it's easy to find that information on the internet, and that no one reads for pleasure or derives any benefit from it.

 

[Ayahuasca]

India used it to build a space program ffs

Can't blame them for wanting to get off this planet too

It makes me wonder whether the billionaires like Musk, Branson and Bezos are funding rocket programs for personal gain or because they know humans don't have much longer on this planet the way we're headed.

 

[arctine]

And we're still giving away billions in "foreign aid", which seems to be doing no good what so ever :/

India used it to build a space program ffs

Sigh.

Ignorant and facile points of view such is this are what is wrong tbh.

 

[zoomee]

Sigh.

Ignorant and facile points of view such is this are what is wrong tbh.

We both know we give with one hand and take with the other. Giving 'foreign aid' is usually for our own benefit more than anything.

 

[h4rm0ny]

If money was eliminated though something would take its very place within hours/days as a form of currency is how people are hardwired to work. Its a sad life as i wish we lived in a world were we were equals, favors was repaid with favors and gentleman's agreements were taken as seriously as they once was instead of now needing your entire life checked just for a credit card etc

Gentlemen's Agreements and the sort of trust that you reminisce about went away when the working class started to become indistinguishable from the middle class. In the times you're talking about a bank manager had already weeded out those without a well-off family to cover debts by simple fact that they never got in the door to know each other. You're talking about times when there was a "tradesman's entrance". The honour system existed because people lived in a small network of knowing each other. If you welshed on a debt, your family and friends would know, other people you would be likely to do business with would know. And the bank manager or whoever would also discretely know your station in life and character from your mutual acquaintances. Now, people move around the country all the time, you can't tell someone's "class" by how they dress or which school they went to (thankfully) and business takes place across far greater geographical reach. If someone sullies their reputation with you, well, they can do business with someone in the next town.

Seven billion people in the world - mobile and co-existing across a hundred highly-complex interlocking demographics based on not nationality or school chums, but hobbies, music, sexual orientation, TV shows you watch... The old ways broke down.