Official RX580,RX570,RX560 and RX550 series review thread

eddyr · 19 Apr 2017 at 10:22

Toss3 said:
The question that I keep coming back to is why didn't they just release the 2560 version that is going into the Xbox Scorpio? Could have kept the lower clocks, and have the custom 580s give the GTX 1070 a run for its money. We know the 2560 part exists so why not release it?

Fundamentally its because there is no 2560 GPU die as you might be envisioning. That's a semicustom APU/SOC, jaguar cpu cores with a gpu that is based on polaris but might carry features from Vega and whatever other IP microsoft wanted integrated. It has a bus designed to feed both CPU/GPU. Before even considering developing and tweaking the physical design for manufacture at glofo instead tsmc, it is in no way suited for a stand alone GPU as is, or worth the expense of developing a standalone GPU die based on partial reuse of (cheap - as in most the work is complete) arch/design work that in actuality means little to the economics bringing a GPU iteration to the market.

=XDC=FluphyBunny · 19 Apr 2017 at 10:22

Well. These cards were as expected. Massively underwhelming and for anyone in the loop concerning GPU's, completely pointless.

Still waiting on Vega and to be honest, AMD need it sooner than later.

IT Troll · 19 Apr 2017 at 10:31

iBSOD said:
My strix 480 has a boost clock of like 1330, so its basically the same as the 580?

No, you need to apply some new stickers and give AMD some more money first.

Strix 480 £218.99, Strix 580 £299.99. :eek:

For the sake of PC gaming, let's hope it goes towards some R&D.

orbitalwalsh · 19 Apr 2017 at 10:33

IT Troll said:
No, you need to apply some new stickers and give AMD some more money first.

Strix 480 £218.99, Strix 580 £299.99.

For the sake of PC gaming, let's hope it goes towards some R&D.

dont forget at the time of launch 480 Strix was £320. so its actually cheaper! but yeah, need to clear stock of 480s quickly before listing flagship models

tommybhoy · 19 Apr 2017 at 10:42

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Just feel like it's always the same here, AMD can do no wrong ever and Nvidia can't do anything thing right.

Grats googaly in steering the anti AMD establishment innocently voicing opinion at the AMD wrong uns.

Next we'll get the anti Nv establishment innocently voicing opinion at the Nv wrong uns.

Both of them need a kick up the arse, one for struggling having next to nothing above mid range, the other for taking the **** with their re-tiering marketing and raising the cost.

Part of me hopes AMD pull out the discrete gpu space and all you lot can argue about is performance and pricing.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 19 Apr 2017 at 10:45

This is what will happen:
1.)Outrage at the launch
2.)Most people considering an AMD card will buy the RX470/RX480 cards at lower prices since they are cheaper
3.)Older GTX1060 cards will probably also be discounted due to the slightly newer version being released,so people wanting a Nvidia card will get those
4.)Eventually the "new" RX580 and "new" GTX1060 will drop down a bit in RRP once stocks of the old cards are finished
5.)Everything will go back to normal
6.)People will move over to Vega being a fail or Nvidia being a fail or something else

Seanspeed said:
Where you're wrong is that 580 prices aren't going to drop down once 480 stocks are sold out.

Seanspeed said:
Of course prices will *eventually* drop down. You're not a genius for predicting that.

But you said that prices would drop specifically due to 470/480 stock being eliminated. That's not likely going to happen, sorry Nostradamus.

So why are you moaning then - you just contradicted yourself "Nostradamus" in the same post. You just said they will drop - if you know that why are trying to argue with me??

Nvidia is also releasing speed bumped GTX1060 cards. Then OFC Vega will be out,Nvidia might release new SKUs,etc - so that puts even more downward pressure.

Every new launch or re-brand we have people saying the same - even remember the GTX1070 launch when retailers were doing very good EOL deals on high end GTX980TI cards and people moaning about GTX1070 prices. The GTX1070 won't drop since AMD has not released anything and the pound has gone down.

Yet,in the end there were even decent GTX1070 deals including games months later - with no competition from AMD at all and with the pound being weak.

People were whining about the RX480/GTX1060 launch pricing since the GTX970/R9 390 were similar price or cheaper,yet the RX480/GTX1060 are in real terms cheaper now(if you include inflation and the exchange rates).

AMD,ATI and Nvidia have done similar things for the last 15 years. I am not going to have any more silly conversations with you about it.

Phixsator · 19 Apr 2017 at 10:49

tommybhoy said:
Grats googaly in steering the anti AMD establishment innocently voicing opinion at the AMD wrong uns.

Next we'll get the anti Nv establishment innocently voicing opinion at the Nv wrong uns.

Both of them need a kick up the arse, one for struggling having next to nothing above mid range, the other for taking the **** with their re-tiering marketing and raising the cost.

Part of me hopes AMD pull out the discrete gpu space and all you lot can argue about is performance and pricing.

If that happens i might as well stop caring about PC gaming cause im not paying the premiums that nvidia want for their top tier cards. Now i would be perfectly happy with the performance of 2 1060 in sli(buy one now and then one more in a years time kind of deal) but that got ruined as well.

Seanspeed · 19 Apr 2017 at 10:52

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
So why are you moaning then - you just contradicted yourself "Nostradamus" in the same post. You just said they will drop - if you know that why are trying to argue with me??

For one, I'm not moaning. I'm calling you out on poor logic. Which you're predictably becoming defensive over.

Two, nowhere have I contradicted myself. If you actually look at your comment that I initially responded to, there was a proper sequence of events that you said would happen, each step obviously being consequential to the previous. You are now trying to pretend this doesn't exist and are taking my comment completely out of context. You could have actually tried to defend your logic on what I was commenting on, but you've taken the different approach of taking my comments out of context. Which makes it pretty obvious you're not at all confident in being able to defend your logic(and initial claim) on merit.

new boy · 19 Apr 2017 at 11:09

Don't worry AMD, it's not the winning, it's the taking part that counts

Davedree · 19 Apr 2017 at 11:53

eddyr said:
Fundamentally its because there is no 2560 GPU die as you might be envisioning. That's a semicustom APU/SOC, jaguar cpu cores with a gpu that is based on polaris but might carry features from Vega and whatever other IP microsoft wanted integrated. It has a bus designed to feed both CPU/GPU. Before even considering developing and tweaking the physical design for manufacture at glofo instead tsmc, it is in no way suited for a stand alone GPU as is, or worth the expense of developing a standalone GPU die based on partial reuse of (cheap - as in most the work is complete) arch/design work that in actuality means little to the economics bringing a GPU iteration to the market.

Yes but the r&d development and lithography of the gpu section would just be transposed onto a separate interposer/substrate just like the sony ps4 pro and polaris 10 desktop.
Rx490 would have been 44/40 cu on a 384 bit bus, just like scorpio, the thing is Polaris 10 has an inherent weakness in memory bandwidth with it's current 256bit Bus and that with the inferior power consumption meant they axed the bigger polaris.
If they had made the desktop rx490 it would have drawn around 250w and performed around around a 1070 (160w). This would have been too expensive to make, just like when Amd suffered selling Hawaii when Nvidia were making the cheaper to manufacture gm204's. This would have been Amd's Gp104, but as you know we'll see Vega brought in to do this job instead.

edit for too expensive

TheRealDeal · 19 Apr 2017 at 12:17

GoogalyMoogaly said:
The 290/390 wasn't £200 brand new at launch, they were that price when they were end-of-life. Comparing them to cards that cost that much at launch is like comparing apples to oranges. Wait until the 1060 is at the end of it's life and take it's price then, or take the 290/390 at launch price of around £300-400 (depending on model) and compare that to current £300-400 cards and see if performance has moved on.
There's also the point that you can't buy the 290/.390/970 new any more.

If the 480 became the 570 and they released something new as the 580 then I could understand it a bit more but the cards are just like-for-like replacements. They're just like factory overclocked versions. back in the 7970 days they just released the 1GHz edition, they didn't rebadge everything to the 8000 series just so they could apply a slight overclock and re-launch all the cards.

The only reason I can see for releasing the 570 and 580 is to make a lot of 470 and 480 owners think their cards are out of date and need to be replaced or can be replaced with a better performing card. Great way to siphon money from the less informed customers. Anyone going 960 -> 1060 or 970 -> 1070 did at least get a noticeable upgrade.

It's not like that either the 290's sat in that price bracket for a long time so effectively that's the card that AMD used for it. It was not like it went end of line and got reduced as it was the card AMD used against the gtx970 and improved on it with the 390 8gb.

I think one of the reasons they brought out the RX580 is since release through drivers the 480 had caught the gtx1060 and with a new 580 line they could show this even better with a clock bump to show who had the faster card. There will be other reasons like Dell and the like wanting a new line to sell more systems.

Any how we both know what each other thinks and i think we both agree that Re-brands ain't a good thing. It has however been a part of the Gpu world for a long time. It was supposedly even ATI that done this first back around 17 years ago. Nvidia made it famous with the 8800 chips to good effect when they weren't so Rich.

GoogalyMoogaly · 19 Apr 2017 at 13:32

tommybhoy said:
Grats googaly in steering the anti AMD establishment innocently voicing opinion at the AMD wrong uns.

Next we'll get the anti Nv establishment innocently voicing opinion at the Nv wrong uns.

Both of them need a kick up the arse, one for struggling having next to nothing above mid range, the other for taking the **** with their re-tiering marketing and raising the cost.

Part of me hopes AMD pull out the discrete gpu space and all you lot can argue about is performance and pricing.

Not sure what you mean about re-tiering and as for prices aren't they pretty much the same as always considering inflation and for us, brexit?
Remember that the Fury X was ~£500, so that's sorta normal for top tier. Sure the Titan cards are always pricey, but they seem to fill a funny place in the market between gamers and professionals. But I would agree that it's overpriced. Remember the 295x2 was £1200 at launch too and that was before some of the inflation and brexit we've had now.

I don't think anyone wants either company to go out of business as we all know they both need competition to keep them coming up with new stuff. A world with no Nvidia would be no better. AMD aren't releasing high-end WITH Nvidia around so what are the chances they'd bother without Nvidia?
At least with Nvidia we get things like the 1080Ti, with AMD the best we get is a 4GB Fury X (aka "The Overclocker's Dream"

, which I own 2 of btw).

aj1soad · 19 Apr 2017 at 13:36

Is it actually worth it buying a GPU now ? I've got a new ryzen 5 1600 build but i haven't yet decided on a GPU. Budget of around £250 unless I could justify spending a bit more. I only play battlefield 1 on a 27" 1080 Asus monitor. I find prices for the rx 580 to high for such little gain over the rx480. Really considering sticking the his 7950 I'm using now in my old pc in my new build till Vega comes out to see if I'll get a deal on the cheaper cards

Freddie1980 · 19 Apr 2017 at 13:43

aj1soad said:
Is it actually worth it buying a GPU now ? I've got a new ryzen 5 1600 build but i haven't yet decided on a GPU. Budget of around £250 unless I could justify spending a bit more. I only play battlefield 1 on a 27" 1080 Asus monitor. I find prices for the rx 580 to high for such little gain over the rx480. Really considering sticking the his 7950 I'm using now in my old pc in my new build till Vega comes out to see if I'll get a deal on the cheaper cards

I highly doubt you will be able to buy a Vega based cards for around £250. High end Vega will be £500+ and low end will be £300/£350. For your sort of money I would look at getting something like this and overclocking it.

Tommy_Here · 19 Apr 2017 at 13:44

aj1soad said:
Is it actually worth it buying a GPU now ? I've got a new ryzen 5 1600 build but i haven't yet decided on a GPU. Budget of around £250 unless I could justify spending a bit more. I only play battlefield 1 on a 27" 1080 Asus monitor. I find prices for the rx 580 to high for such little gain over the rx480. Really considering sticking the his 7950 I'm using now in my old pc in my new build till Vega comes out to see if I'll get a deal on the cheaper cards

Would you not consider a 980 Ti? For £250 give or take it can't be beaten

D.P. · 19 Apr 2017 at 13:49

aj1soad said:
Is it actually worth it buying a GPU now ? I've got a new ryzen 5 1600 build but i haven't yet decided on a GPU. Budget of around £250 unless I could justify spending a bit more. I only play battlefield 1 on a 27" 1080 Asus monitor. I find prices for the rx 580 to high for such little gain over the rx480. Really considering sticking the his 7950 I'm using now in my old pc in my new build till Vega comes out to see if I'll get a deal on the cheaper cards

Vega are going to be priced above the RX580, 350-400 bottom end. My relatively optimistic prediction for low end end is you get performance close to a 1080 for prices around the 1070. Big Vega will be between 1080 and 1080ti with a price point to match. Physics, economics, and AMD's current technology level and their business strategy precludes there being anything revolutionary price and performance wise. Vega is still an evolution of GCN with a lot of the high level designs looking suspiciously like Fiji, but likely the biggest evolution since the first GCN cards were released. That is good but when you compare to Pascal you can see that Polaris is at least 1 generation behind Nvidia so even a doubling of performance per watt wh9ch would be remarkable even with a new smaller process (which there isn't if Vega is released in the next 6 months), still leaves Vega somewhat short of Nvidia's performance per watt.

aj1soad · 19 Apr 2017 at 14:02

Yeh I gathered Vega was going to be over my budget but i don't want to overpay for a 580 now either. Wouldn't be so bad if the 8gb version was around £200-£220. Haven't looked at the 980 nvidia at all seeing as the rx cards already perform better than the 1060 on battlefield 1

RavenXXX2 · 19 Apr 2017 at 14:06

icey_haj · 19 Apr 2017 at 14:25

@aj1soad I'm in a similar position to you. Hard to keep waiting but, I will likely stretch to small vega if it's around £350 ish and hopefully it should last a few years @ 1080p.

tommybhoy · 19 Apr 2017 at 15:00

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Not sure what you mean about re-tiering and as for prices aren't they pretty much the same as always considering inflation and for us, brexit?
Remember that the Fury X was ~£500, so that's sorta normal for top tier. Sure the Titan cards are always pricey, but they seem to fill a funny place in the market between gamers and professionals. But I would agree that it's overpriced. Remember the 295x2 was £1200 at launch too and that was before some of the inflation and brexit we've had now.

Despite the 295X being half the price of the £2400 Titanx2 and a global Nv price increase>inflation has nowt to do with any Geforce branded argumet so doesn't take an educated person to realise you knew exactly what I was taking about.

GoogalyMoogaly said:
I don't think anyone wants either company to go out of business as we all know they both need competition to keep them coming up with new stuff. A world with no Nvidia would be no better. AMD aren't releasing high-end WITH Nvidia around so what are the chances they'd bother without Nvidia?
At least with Nvidia we get things like the 1080Ti, with AMD the best we get is a 4GB Fury X (aka "The Overclocker's Dream" , which I own 2 of btw).

AMD pulling out PC discrete isn't wanting anyone going out of business, AMD have been struggling for years, not sure many are as surprised as you are that they haven't gotten anything out, especially after the many public announcements in 2016 that they couldn't compete until Q2 2017, but glad they didn't hold up a paper mache gpu last year on stage.

As an NV user maybe I could list a few of their failings over multiple posts, compare them negatively while at the exact same time showing AMD in a better light than they probably deserve ?

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/official-gtx770-review-thread.18516190/#post-24366000