Australia replacing discredited 457 visas

[Caged]

There's a balance to be struck though I think - if you go too protectionist with your skilled worker visa policies then it makes the option of opening an overseas office in Pune or wherever a lot more appealing and then everybody loses out.

Also asking companies what areas the skill shortages are in without a way to actually validate their requests is not the best idea. Interested to read more about Aussies ending up out of work over it though, since everything I hear is that there are still shortages in the tech sector - unless I am hearing about actual technical vacancies whereas the 457 visa was being used to bring over people for T1 support roles.

 

[G-MAN2004]

I take it this isn't the same as the working visa that allows you to work there for a year (with an option of extending to two years)?

 

[ttaskmaster]

And to think a few years back you could get there for a tenner.

That's nothing. A few years further back than that, you could get there for free just by nicking a tenner!!

 

[Sankari]

There's a balance to be struck though I think - if you go too protectionist with your skilled worker visa policies then it makes the option of opening an overseas office in Pune or wherever a lot more appealing and then everybody loses out.

Yes, obviously. But the 457 is just asking to be used and abused:

Australian immigration officials have been referred for investigation over more than 100 cases of alleged corrupt activity in Australia's skilled and student visa program.

A 7.30-Fairfax Media investigation has discovered that in the last 12 months, Immigration Department chief Michael Pezzullo has referred 132 cases of suspected corruption inside the department to the national corruption watchdog, the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity (ACLEI).

..."Numerous investigations [by the department] revealed massive fraud within our Student, Skilled Migration, 457 programs," he said.

"Some investigations revealed thousands of skilled migrant applicants had lodged bogus qualifications from private colleges, funded by the Australian taxpayer, and in some cases excellent counterfeit degrees from our most prestigious Victorian universities.

"One investigation identified up to 4,000 applicants who used such documents to apply for skilled migration."

...Whistleblower Clint Raven was working for multinational construction contractor Murphy Pipe and Civil when he discovered his employer was sponsoring Irish nationals for jobs that did not exist.

He has given sworn testimony to the Immigration Department about his former company, but has never spoken publicly about the company's practices, until now.

"As a business we were issuing or sponsoring visas for workers as project co-ordinators, project administrators, where that role didn't exist on our site and these people, their actual jobs was as a labourer on the ground," he said.

(Source).

Also asking companies what areas the skill shortages are in without a way to actually validate their requests is not the best idea. Interested to read more about Aussies ending up out of work over it though, since everything I hear is that there are still shortages in the tech sector - unless I am hearing about actual technical vacancies whereas the 457 visa was being used to bring over people for T1 support roles.

457s are most commonly used by the mining and construction industries. IT never used to be a problem, but that is changing:

I am concerned that the media doesn’t understand what is happening in the IT industry with offshoring jobs and the use of cheap 457 visa IT staff to replace Australian IT staff.

The Insider Program on Sunday (early March 2013) discussed the issue whether 457 visas were being rorted within the IT industry. Having worked in the industry for more than 30 years, I can honestly say that I have never seen a time where it has been harder both for senior experienced IT professionals and entry level graduates to find and maintain employment.

I have no problem with the 457 visa programme as such, but it is being rorted.

The IT industry is advertised as one having skills shortages, yet consider the following:

1. Last month 10,000 high skilled IT jobs were made redundant.

2. I personally know of five SAP computer programmers made redundant from my company a year ago who still don't have jobs ... contract or permanent. These people were very highly skilled and experienced IT professionals.

...4. A corresponding specialist 457 visa website http://www.australiajobs77.com advertises the same type of Australian-based SAP jobs to overseas workers where Australian residents cannot apply. In the last 30 days, there were 344 advertisements for SAP FICO jobs and 8,156 advertisements for SAP jobs in total. The same trends are found in computer programming, networking, and other IT roles.

......There are three reasons for the employment problems for Australian IT professionals:

1. Highly skilled professionals are being excluded from jobs in preference to lower paid 457 visa holders. In addition, the salaries and conditions for working Australian professionals are being driven down. Yet we are supposed to be facing a skills shortage! How can this be?

2. Australian IT projects are being tendered to overseas suppliers and filled by workers on 457 visas. For example, the Brisbane City Council SAP project and the Gold Coast City Council SAP project are using offshore suppliers at the expense of local IT professionals.

3. Australian company support teams are being replaced by foreign workers and forced to train them. The company I work for was recently canvassed by an International IT company and offered to do all the IT support and project at half the cost of having internal staff. Our company decided not to go down that path but you only have to have an HR director and CFO who are supportive of offshoring work and local workers get made redundant.

(Source).

I take it this isn't the same as the working visa that allows you to work there for a year (with an option of extending to two years)?

Correct. 457 is supposed to be for skilled workers who are necessarily hired due to a local shortage.

 

[Caged]

Ah yeah, it's a 1996 law so it's understandable that it needs a bit of a reworking. I do ultimately see all of these measures being temporary (I can only speak for the tech sector here) since location of worker is close to being irrelevant already, but it's difficult to defend companies who already have positions staffed using the visa to get cheaper people in. How does the law around redundancies work over there?

 

[D.P.]

There's a balance to be struck though I think - if you go too protectionist with your skilled worker visa policies then it makes the option of opening an overseas office in Pune or wherever a lot more appealing and then everybody loses out.

Also asking companies what areas the skill shortages are in without a way to actually validate their requests is not the best idea. Interested to read more about Aussies ending up out of work over it though, since everything I hear is that there are still shortages in the tech sector - unless I am hearing about actual technical vacancies whereas the 457 visa was being used to bring over people for T1 support roles.

there is a lot of problem if skilled immigration is too restrictive. A you say, a company might just open an office in Poland or Mumbai if it provide s an easier means to get the required skill set. Or companies will simply outsource to 3rd parties in such locations anyway. If the skills shortage can't be overcome then ultimate companies will become less competitive in the global landscape. Letting companies have much easier access to the skilled workers they need increases productivity, efficiency and raises additional taxes.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

And there lies the problem There is no incentive for UK employers to improve the competency of British workers while they can still get away with importing cheap ready trained ones from abroad. That is why the immigration restrictions have to come first.

I wouldn't have said it was up to employers to improve the competency of workers............................

 

[D.P.]

I wouldn't have said it was up to employers to improve the competency of workers............................

How is an employer going to help an employee get a PhD in computer science, or an MBA, or a BSc in microbiology? That is the Purpose of higher educational institutions.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

How is an employer going to help an employee get a PhD in computer science, or an MBA, or a BSc in microbiology? That is the Purpose of higher educational institutions.

Which was my point.

At least now employees have the right to request flexible working if they are undertaking higher education, as opposed to it just being available to parents in the past.

 

[Amp34]

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/...gn-workers-for-29-high-skilled-jobs-1.4075684

Seems almost like they all banded together and announced at the same time. Alberta is now doing something similar, although it looks temporary and is likely something to do with the rather large recession in the province due to oil prices. There's a high unemployment rate in oil/engineering and construction jobs at the moment, which is pretty much what that list consists of.

 

[dowie]

well with the US cracking down on H1B visas and the Aussies cracking down on their visas then hopefully we can use it to our advantage and make the UK an easier destination for some of the highly qualified Indian IT workers etc.. post Brexit

would much rather we had a skills/points based system for all immigration rather than letting any old idiot from Romania etc.. just come over here thanks to the EU

 

[Sankari]

How does the law around redundancies work over there?

Redundancies are supposed to be for people whose jobs no longer exist, for whatever reason. This is intended to prevent an employer hiring a cheap replacement to do the same work.

Unfortunately there are ways to abuse this system as well.

 

[Sankari]

there is a lot of problem if skilled immigration is too restrictive.

True. But Australia's skilled immigration system is not too restrictive. The points system works extremely well.

If the skills shortage can't be overcome then ultimate companies will become less competitive in the global landscape. Letting companies have much easier access to the skilled workers they need increases productivity, efficiency and raises additional taxes.

I agree—if there's a genuine skills shortage. But too often, there is no such shortage and employers are simply circumventing the law to hire cheap labour.

 

[dowie]

Australia's unemployment rate seems pretty low, doesn't look like that visa was forcing Australians out of work to me. Maybe you know better though seeing as immigration seems to be where you spend all of your intellectual resources.

indeed, I don't really see cracking down on skilled immigration to be a good thing - especially when, as you point out, jobs aren't really an issue and the cited examples are say overpaid SAP devs being undercut... they're highly paid in the first place partly because there is a shortage of them!

also slightly ironic to see a quite vocal anti-brexit poster supporting a tougher crackdown on immigration

 

[Sankari]

also slightly ironic to see a quite vocal anti-brexit poster supporting a tougher crackdown on immigration

Not at all. This isn't a crackdown on immigration, it's a crackdown on a working visa which is being exploited by employers, as you can see in the examples I've quoted. Companies are literally inventing fake jobs to hire cheap 457 workers under false pretences.

In any case, I've always been in favour of strong immigration laws. I'm just opposed to the UKIP 'keep the darkies out' approach.

 

[sports_brah]

Not at all. This isn't a crackdown on immigration, it's a crackdown on a working visa which is being exploited by employers, as you can see in the examples I've quoted. Companies are literally inventing fake jobs to hire cheap 457 workers under false pretences.

In any case, I've always been in favour of strong immigration laws. I'm just opposed to the UKIP 'keep the darkies out' approach.

Right......

 

[dowie]

Not at all. This isn't a crackdown on immigration, it's a crackdown on a working visa which is being exploited by employers, as you can see in the examples I've quoted. Companies are literally inventing fake jobs to hire cheap 457 workers under false pretences.

In any case, I've always been in favour of strong immigration laws. I'm just opposed to the UKIP 'keep the darkies out' approach.

How is this any different? They're also adding a 'keep the darkies out' flavour to these immigration reforms in Australia with tightening English language requirements, cultural tests etc.. In fact these reforms + the current treatment of refugees would be a wet dream for the likes of UKIP.