Talk to me about the XFR

Mickey said:
the main thing making me question the change is the cheap feel of the M5 interior compared to the XFR
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You have got to be joking? For me the biggest downside of the XFR is the cheap, dated and E60 era interior it suffers with by virtue of being a car that was late to the party two generations ago.

I appreciate that for some people interiors and infotainment etc are not important but i do wonder why people who think that don't buy a more focused sports car, cars like this are about ultra luxo performance. It's all part of the package.

If the drive and the performance matter more then surely buy a Porsche or something.
 
Django x2 said:
I'm not sure a leather dash can be the only reason an XFR appears to be the better car. Not least because if it's the same "leather" dash as in the discovery, it probably doesn't come as a surprise to know it's not real leather. The M5 had a leather dash option, admittedly, but all it was good for was stopping your mobile phone from sliding around :D....
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It's not the only reason, but it's a big part of the car which smacks you in the face. I'd be surprised if it's the same material used in the discovery, there are different material quality levels used further down the X250 range, the XFR is basically a Portfolio spec interior though, which has the best soft grain leather and suede headlining as standard. The sports seats in the XF are some of the nicest I've ever sat in too, the M5 needs comfort seats to come close IMO. On the technology side the M5 is definitely ahead, but there are standard features on the XFR which were options on the M5 e.g. comfort access, which doesn't even seem to be an overly popular option for the car to have. The basic stereo in the M5 doesn't seem amazing either so needs a higher option, but the XFR comes with the top system available for the MY, either 825w Meridian, 1200w B&W or 440w B&W.
 
[TW]Fox said:
You have got to be joking? For me the biggest downside of the XFR is the cheap, dated and E60 era interior it suffers with by virtue of being a car that was late to the party two generations ago.
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Some aspects of the interior are definitely dated, but cheap? The higher trim level XF interiors are better matched to cars which are a class up from the XF, it's something that's always been praised in reviews and has drawn buyers in from other brands where some of the features aren't even options on the equivalent car.
 
Incidentally, I am currently on my car replacement cycle at the moment and I spent an hour at the jaguar dealer yesterday evening looking at the XF range from the entry through to the S

I have to agree that whilst the XF has some nice interior touches, there is an ever increasing sea of hard creaky plastics throughout the range. On the entry models the interior is noticeably lagging.

In contrast to the current gen Mercedes E class and BMW 5 series which seem to use more plastic but feel much higher quality.
 
Scrutinize said:
Incidentally, I am currently on my car replacement cycle at the moment and I spent an hour at the jaguar dealer yesterday evening looking at the XF range from the entry through to the S

I have to agree that whilst the XF has some nice interior touches, there is an ever increasing sea of hard creaky plastics throughout the range. On the entry models the interior is noticeably lagging.

In contrast to the current gen Mercedes E class and BMW 5 series which seem to use more plastic but feel much higher quality.
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Are you talking about the X260 (current model) ? If so, then I totally agree, they've done some terrible cost cutting which is a massive step backwards in terms of materials quality. Along with them severely limiting some of the options available at various trim levels, they've turned off a load of people who've had a couple of X250 cars and would have gone for an X260 if they didn't feel such a step backwards.
 
Yes the current one.

To be fair the dealer was offering me almost 17% off list. If I could run the S on my mileage I would consider it but their depreciation is not good.
 
The thing for me is, like Mercedes, they model release on the wrong order. The crappiest sat nav system ever resides in the XFR yet a poverty spec Disco Sport has the new Android based infotainment.

Like the E class, I was sensible enough to realise that i don't drive a car like I play GTA (ie in the 3rd person view) and instead spend most of my time inside the car. Having a Disco with said crappiest infotainment and having been in the "my vTech iPad" in the Mercedes, i realised that the better in most everyway F10 was the nicer place to spend significant amounts of time.

This is all subjective though, as i found the seats in the XFR woeful and almost off centre for a driving position. The Mercedes seats were incredible, better than the M5 until i tried the multifunction sports seats (which i assume is what you mean by the comfort option), which is why i ensured it was spec'd on the car i bought.

I do however completely agree about comfort access, that should be standard on the M5 and the sound system in the Disco is better, in some cases, than the M5. They handle different tracks differently, some rock, pop sounds better in the BMW whereas the disco handles randb and dance tracks better.
 
Only on OcUK is the main discussion point when talking about 500bhp super saloons the quality of the interior plastics. I do struggle to understand the obsession with perceived quality (the only real reason Audi sell any cars). I would have thought power delivery, handling, ride, and even fuel economy (especially in relation to range) would be more important than the quality of interior plastic parts that you rarely touch.
 
Django x2 said:
This is all subjective though, as i found the seats in the XFR woeful and almost off centre for a driving position. The Mercedes seats were incredible, better than the M5 until i tried the multifunction sports seats (which i assume is what you mean by the comfort option), which is why i ensured it was spec'd on the car i bought.
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http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/M/4.4-M5/Bradford/3696268-606141083-3497067.aspx - The seats in that car are the comfort option, standard seats were the sport ones. Main visual differences are the head rest and the stitching on the seat base.

Django x2 said:
I do however completely agree about comfort access, that should be standard on the M5 and the sound system in the Disco is better, in some cases, than the M5. They handle different tracks differently, some rock, pop sounds better in the BMW whereas the disco handles randb and dance tracks better.
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I'm not sure what system that will have, but I've had the 1200w B&W and 825w Meridian systems and both sound great. I tried an M5 with the standard system which seemed a bit weak, and had a 640d GC with the Harmon Kardon system for a couple of weeks when my XFR was being fixed, it seemed OK but not nearly as good as the XFR. One thing that really bugged me in the 640d was that the bluetooth system seemed to keep it's own log of calls made & received, rather than syncing with the phone like the XF system does, is there a way around that?
 
Joe T said:
Only on OcUK is the main discussion point when talking about 500bhp super saloons the quality of the interior plastics. I do struggle to understand the obsession with perceived quality (the only real reason Audi sell any cars). I would have thought power delivery, handling, ride, and even fuel economy (especially in relation to range) would be more important than the quality of interior plastic parts that you rarely touch.
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The point is though, that they're meant to be the best of both worlds, so ignoring the practicality and how they feel to be in and use every day would be ridiculous. If you were just after the fastest, best handling car on the road and ignoring the interior and practicality, you'd not be buying a super saloon. Both of these also have great power delivery, handling and ride quality, more than you'll normally come close to the limits of in your everyday driving, I'm not sure anyone would really dispute that.
 
Joe T said:
Only on OcUK is the main discussion point when talking about 500bhp super saloons the quality of the interior plastics. I do struggle to understand the obsession with perceived quality (the only real reason Audi sell any cars). I would have thought power delivery, handling, ride, and even fuel economy (especially in relation to range) would be more important than the quality of interior plastic parts that you rarely touch.
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I think i subjectively disagree. It's the exact thing you should be concerned with when spending money on what was potentially a £70k to £90k purchase for someone. By contrast, you buy none of these cars to then talk about fuel economy. If fuel economy even enters your thoughts when comparing these cars, you're probably not ready for a car like this.

There was a 3rd option for f10 M5 seats, the ones i have, which are the multifunction seats, and imo, should have been the only seats on offer in the M5. Admittedly, the amount of adjustment is frankly beyond comprehension that even the iDrive owners manual struggles to cover all the options, but, once setup and stored, you don't need to worry.

Disco has the 825w meridian system of the same Gen (10 speakers and a sub iirc) and thanks to the fact the whole car acts as a giant sub, it's pretty good. :cool:
 
Django x2 said:
By contrast, you buy none of these cars to then talk about fuel economy. If fuel economy even enters your thoughts when comparing these cars, you're probably not ready for a car like this.
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I'd not go quite that far, I know I certainly checked what real world economy was likely to be before buying my first XFR. There's a big difference between averaging 18-22 which is what I've done in my two XFRs and getting the 10-12 which some comparable cars seem to get. It's not really a question of whether you can afford to pay for it when comparing numbers like this either, it's more about whether you want to.
 
The saving grace for this gen XF in terms of interior quality is the Audi A6.

Compared to the competition it lags so far behind now it's laughable. I came out of the Audi dealership wondering how they sell any but then realised I barely see any on the roads.

You guys are lucky to be debating the R/M5 ownership dilemma. At 30k miles pa, I sensibly get to choose between the e220d or 520d.
 
Joe T said:
Only on OcUK is the main discussion point when talking about 500bhp super saloons the quality of the interior plastics. I do struggle to understand the obsession with perceived quality (the only real reason Audi sell any cars). I would have thought power delivery, handling, ride, and even fuel economy (especially in relation to range) would be more important than the quality of interior plastic parts that you rarely touch.
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These are ultra premium saloon cars - they are supposed to represent the very best of this type of car. If you want big power and handling then there are better cars. These cars are about everything from the sense of luxury to the effortless power and performance.
 
 
[TW]Fox said:
These are ultra premium saloon cars - they are supposed to represent the very best of this type of car. If you want big power and handling then there are better cars. These cars are about everything from the sense of luxury to the effortless power and performance.
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These used to be simply the version of the mid-szied exec car with the biggest engine (plus suspension etc) and not really much else. These days it's more about the luxury and the perceived quality of interior plastics, and that makes me a bit sad.
 
Joe T said:
These used to be simply the version of the mid-szied exec car with the biggest engine (plus suspension etc) and not really much else. These days it's more about the luxury and the perceived quality of interior plastics, and that makes me a bit sad.
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If by 'used to be' then you mean '30 years ago' then sure but ever since the original RS6 and E39 M5 they've been well built supersaloons offering the best of everything in the range bar value for money or running costs...
 
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