Le Vote, France start to elect a new president

Amp34 said:
Any particular reason why?
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When we've gone we'll see a big push by the EU for their true hidden goal of federalism. We'll have to agree to assimilation by that point which won't happen. Either that or they will fail to suppress the right and the whole thing collapses.

When I say hidden, they ain't even hiding it anymore.
 
Amp34 said:
As the older generation die off I think it's pretty likely, especially if the EU is still around and especially if it's going from strength to strength.

As for joining the Euro (assuming it is still called the Euro) that will almost certainly be part of any joining deal, unlike the current deal where we get to keep the pound.

Time moves on, as it always does. The world is becoming increasingly homogenous, global and connected. All we are having now is a fight by the old guard trying to "preserve" what they believe is their way of life and the inevitable march towards the future, whether that be Le Pen voters, brexiteers or ISIS for that matter.
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We can trade freely and peacefully with other nations without becoming part of them.
 
Skunkworks said:
The majority of the 6th form marxists will grow up and become the new "old guard".
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Of course, it's been happening for generations/eternity. It wasn't meant to be a slight on the current older generation, it's just progress and the movement of time.

kitch9 said:
When we've gone we'll see a big push by the EU for their true hidden goal of federalism. We'll have to agree to assimilation by that point which won't happen. Either that or they will fail to suppress the right and the whole thing collapses.

When I say hidden, they ain't even hiding it anymore.
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There are a lot more countries pushing against federalisation than just the UK. I'm personally not happy giving up the pound which is one of the reasons I'd rather stay in and help steer the ship than join something in a couple of decades on their terms.

kitch9 said:
We can trade freely and peacefully with other nations without becoming part of them.
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But you're missing the point that global trade deals/blocs are becoming more and more frequent. As much as Trump is also trying to stem the tide with the likes of NAFTA and TTP they will inevitably continue in future (even if they are eventually named something different. Even if he wins a battle or two he's not going to win the war. Nations are getting closer, regional trade deals are becoming more important as are unification of legislation and laws - these include everything from the WTO and UN to the EU and NAFTA etc.
 
Amp34 said:
But you're missing the point that global trade deals/blocs are becoming more and more frequent. As much as Trump is also trying to stem the tide with the likes of NAFTA and TTP they will inevitably continue in future (even if they are eventually named something different. Even if he wins a battle or two he's not going to win the war. Nations are getting closer, regional trade deals are becoming more important as are unification of legislation and laws - these include everything from the WTO and UN to the EU and NAFTA etc.
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Those trade blocks aren't compatible with nation state democracy though which is basically what the allies fought for in WW2, they have details like multinational corporations being able to sue countries if government policies harm their profits.

There's really no reason why you can't have a trade block without all of the political BS that strips countries of self determination, that's what the EU started out as afterall.
 
mmj_uk said:
Those trade blocks aren't compatible with nation state democracy though which is basically what the allies fought for in WW2, they have details like multinational corporations being able to sue countries if government policies harm their profits.

There's really no reason why you can't have a trade block without all of the political BS that strips countries of self determination, that's what the EU started out as afterall.
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No, WW2 was about stopping a dictator, tyranny and one country invading another... you really can't compare the two.

You've also fundamentally misunderstood the proposed international court systems as well. It had little to do with profits and everything to do with companies being able to reclaim money if countries backed out of legal contracts.

The problem is you need harmonization of legislation and rules, ways companies can get recompense from wayward governments if they break contracts and other systems if you want to move away from WTO rules (and even WTO rules have a selection of the above that countries have to abide by).

Basically if you want large scale trade deals that include services then you need to take these. Obviously the EU has gone past those moresp than other trade deals but they have been logical steps.
 
I'm sorry I can't reach the dizzying heights of calling people sixth-form Marxists, and my posting of things you don't like winds you up.
 
Amp34 said:
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You've also fundamentally misunderstood the proposed international court systems as well. It had little to do with profits and everything to do with companies being able to reclaim money if countries backed out of legal contracts.
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And yet if we had been in TRIP now we'd currently be being sued by several companies for putting a sugar tax on drinks.

Just like mexico was
 
Out of interest got a link to why? I'm guessing there's more to the story than you're posting, if the situation is the same as what was in the TTIP draft.

Edit: and a quick Google explains that there is indeed much more behind it than you're letting on.

https://www.law360.com/articles/123636/cargill-wins-77m-from-mexico-over-nafta-violation

Turns out the lawsuit was about a 20% tax on imported high fructose corn syrup from the US, illegally favouring their own domestic sugar manufacturers. So basically a fairly fundamental part of any free trade deal.
 
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Amp34 said:
Out of interest got a link to why? I'm guessing there's more to the story than you're posting, if the situation is the same as what was in the TTIP draft.

Edit: and a quick Google explains that there is indeed much more behind it than you're letting on.

https://www.law360.com/articles/123636/cargill-wins-77m-from-mexico-over-nafta-violation

Turns out the lawsuit was about a 20% tax on imported high fructose corn syrup from the US, illegally favouring their own domestic sugar manufacturers. So basically a fairly fundamental part of any free trade deal.
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Errr you realise that is from 6 years before mexico introduced the tax on sugar sweetened drinks and entirely unrelated?

I mean unless they sued in 2009 for an event in 2015
 
deuse said:
"France election: Macron says EU must reform or face 'Frexit" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39766334

Macron changing his tune with each dance. I think he is getting worried.
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No chance. Even if he offers a referendum which he won't, it is just bluster. The EU are out to make an example of the UK to scare any other countries away from considering it. It is a dire situation for them to need to do that. Trying to trap countries into a terrible dictatorship.
 
delta0 said:
No chance. Even if he offers a referendum which he won't, it is just bluster. The EU are out to make an example of the UK to scare any other countries away from considering it. It is a dire situation for them to need to do that. Trying to trap countries into a terrible dictatorship.
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The problem for France is they have written EU membership into thier consitution.

So before any exit referendum they will need to cha ge the co situation which will be very dificult
 
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