Poll: Poll: Prime Minister Theresa May calls General Election on June 8th

[McPhee]

Which is ironic given the clampdown this government has had on just that yet they persist with this heavily flawed system!

The clampdown this government has had and the backlash it has recieved simply proves the point. In trying to reduce corruption and waste they've hurt many, many people, and still corruption exists.

Whether or not it has been worth it is debatable. But there will always be a cut-off beyond which action does more harm than good.

The conversation around tax evasion could be framed in a similar manner.

 

[Dis86]

The clampdown this government has had and the backlash it has recieved simply proves the point. In trying to reduce corruption and waste they've hurt many, many people, and still corruption exists.

Whether or not it has been worth it is debatable. But there will always be a cut-off beyond which action does more harm than good.

But that's because they're clearly not tackling these things in the right way. Perhaps taking half measures instead of full or just completely barking up the wrong tree.

 

[datalol-jack]

It may be the point, but it's also the flaw. It imagines that politics is reducible to something akin to this line:

Greens - Labour - Lib Dem - Tories - UKIP

And that anyone who favours a party to the left of centre over a party to the right will also favour all parties to the left of that party over all parties to the right. But this is clearly nonsense, and to see why you only have to consider the Lib Dems in the centre of that line. If one voter favours the Lib Dems over the Tories because they liked the coalition but oppose Brexit how does it follow that they'll favour Labour over the Tories? If another voter favours the Lib Dems over Labour because they feel betrayed by Corbyn's damp squib approach to Brexit how does it follow that they'll favour UKIP over Labour? The whole thing assumes an ordering that simply doesn't exist. Even if you're going to accept the excessive oversimplification of a left-right line, people will still prefer the closest candidate. The unity of an anti-Tory "alliance" is a myth; most people simply don't vote that way and the key centrist constituency definitely don't.

Now, to be fair, the idea of a centre ground and thus a "key centrist constituency" is something of a myth but what is undeniably true is that elections are won by winning over voters who will consider voting for either Tory or Labour; these voters are unimpressed by the idea of a coalition against either. In fact, it's very likely that by presenting themselves as indistinguishable from the Greens the Labour party will reduce their vote by a bigger amount than winning Green voters in seats the Greens can't contest can possibly make up for.

The absurd nature of our pathetic excuse for a voting system means that our parties are already broad tent alliances - come on, does anyone really think Liz Kendall and Jeremy Corbyn should really be in the same party? - that are only barely sustainably broad. Pursuing an alliance means pushing these alliances past their breaking points. That might appeal to minority parties like the Greens and Lib Dems but it's hopelessly inappropriate for parties with credible aspirations of power.

Which is why you form them for a purpose and stick that purpose in the alliance's manifesto. (Provided you aren't caught out by an election with your pants down.) The anti-Tory jig won't do, as highlighted previously. Although now that you mention it, it's the standard way parties do get eaten into broad tents. However temporary alliances on big constitutional issues are also possible.

Labour are a complete mess. A "progressive alliance" is still making things worse. Labour have literally nothing to gain from this nonsense. Consider Brighton Pavillion - the poster seat for such an alliance - what other seat do the Greens offer for this one which Labour held until the Greens took it in 2010? And where they are still the second party?

The Greens would have to offer several where the total equals the swing needed, the leak to UKIP or the votes sacrificed in Brighton. Labour has only stickiness to gain 'back' from the Greens, but this is nothing to scoff at against a solid UKIP underbelly of the Tory party and up to half of its own vote in flux. The voter flows look dreadful for going tribal.

 

[McPhee]

Which is why you form them for a purpose and stick that purpose in the alliance's manifesto. (Provided you aren't caught out by an election with your pants down.) The anti-Tory jig won't do, as highlighted previously. Although now that you mention it, it's the standard way parties do get eaten into broad tents. However temporary alliances on big constitutional issues are also possible.



The Greens would have to offer several where the total equals the swing needed, the leak to UKIP or the votes sacrificed in Brighton. Labour has only stickiness to gain 'back' from the Greens, but this is nothing to scoff at against a solid UKIP underbelly of the Tory party and up to half of its own vote in flux. The voter flows look dreadful for going tribal.

Labour (under Corbyn); Social Democrats (left-wing authoritarian).

The Green Party; Democratic Socialists (left-wing libertarians).

The Liberal Democrats; Liberal/Progressive (right-wing libertarian).

Vote Lib Dem, get Labour? I can't think of anything less palatable. I get the impression the "progressive alliance" is an idea favoured by loyal Labour voters, left behind by the Corbyn era.

 

[Caged]

But that's because they're clearly not tackling these things in the right way. Perhaps taking half measures instead of full or just completely barking up the wrong tree.

Isn't this a completely redundant line of enquiry now? Everybody talking about this subject has admitted they have no idea how to 'fix' the current situation but is absolutely sure how things are handled currently can't be the most optimal way of doing it. I would say it's very difficult to be sure if something is being tackled correctly or not if you have no idea yourself what the steps to make improvements look like.

 

[V F]

Labour (under Corbyn); Social Democrats (left-wing authoritarian).

The Green Party; Democratic Socialists (left-wing libertarians).

The Liberal Democrats; Liberal/Progressive (right-wing libertarian).

Vote Lib Dem, get Labour? I can't think of anything less palatable. I get the impression the "progressive alliance" is an idea favoured by loyal Labour voters, left behind by the Corbyn era.

Where is the nuke them into orbit crowd?

 

[dowie]

You're still totally reliant on people agreeing to do the "right" thing there. You're hoping people will agree to not have any more children. If they don't, you're back to square one. Do you then help pay for the upbringing of those children? Or do you accept that they'll grow up with a high chance of becoming a problem for society?

It's a bluff.

I'm not reliant on that - the status quo is though with the added incentive that we'll happily fund them too.

I'm talking about removing that incentive and adding in some optional incentive.

 

[crinkleshoes]

Anyone from the 98% of normal humans who votes Conservative is voting against their own personal interest... please explain to me how quite so many people are so easily duped into voting against themselves.

Polls like this make me want to leave this forum again... but on the other hand... maybe one of you Cons voters can give me an actual insight into your reasoning past the attacks that are sure to ensue following this post.

Help me understand you.

 

[Tunney]

Wasn't he reasonably successful as Mayor of London? It seems overly harsh to put him on the same level of the racist shambles which is Diane Abbott.

I think Londoners are fairly lucky that Boris Johnson quickly lost interest in being Mayor of London soon after he became mayor. The best you can say about his tenure is that he carried most of Ken Livingstone's projects over the line (e.g. cycle hire, the Olympics, bringing more commuter rail services under TfL).

He certainly didn't do much of what he boasted he would do (e.g. stop tube workers striking).

 

[dowie]

brilliant - if things had gone wrong on his watch then he'd clearly be the one to blame but when things run smoothly it is because he 'lost interest'

 

[Caged]

I don't think the Mayor has enough of a direct involvement where you'd be able to get the success or failure of everyday operations to stick to them in all honesty.

 

[LOAM]

I think Londoners are fairly lucky that Boris Johnson quickly lost interest in being Mayor of London soon after he became mayor. The best you can say about his tenure is that he carried most of Ken Livingstone's projects over the line (e.g. cycle hire, the Olympics, bringing more commuter rail services under TfL).

He certainly didn't do much of what he boasted he would do (e.g. stop tube workers striking).

Did he lose interest or come close to being rumbled for lining his mates pockets? If you read up on the procurement route of the garden bridge its pretty horrific. The two people in charge of the tender allowed one party to amend their bid after the tenders were returned, then awarded them the job then went on to take very high positions in said company after awarding them a provisional £60m contract.

 

[GAC]

Did he lose interest or come close to being rumbled for lining his mates pockets? If you read up on the procurement route of the garden bridge its pretty horrific. The two people in charge of the tender allowed one party to amend their bid after the tenders were returned, then awarded them the job then went on to take very high positions in said company after awarding them a provisional £60m contract.

sounds like most sodding gov conracts for a lot of things over the years be it defence or civil engineering "the contracts run over and will cost twice as much" the gov shrugs its shoulders and pays.

 

[Angilion]

She is a glaring example of what happens when you promote somebody purely to further your diversity image, with no regard for the fact they're a complete moron.

I wouldn't say she was a moron.

I would say she's a racist, sexist, lying hypocritical bigot whose devotion to her beloved irrational prejudices overrides her intelligence and can make her appear stupid. I would say that she's incompetent in her current job. I would say that she's incompetent in almost any job because of how sexist and racist she is. But I wouldn't say she's a moron.

 

[Angilion]

lmao you'd be first in line to have a go if she was using her skin colour as a selling point. Why is gender any different? She's obviously trying to make Thatcher comparisons and idiots are lapping it up

She's obviously referring to the comment by Kenneth Clarke, which was quite famous for a while. He made unguarded comments about the candidates for leadership of the conservative party when he didn't know the mike was still on and being recorded after an interview. Amongst other things, he described Theresa May as "a bloody difficult woman" and that was what attracted the most attention. He backed her over the others (who he described in harsher terms) and said she was good at her job, but that bit attracted far less attention.

Fair play to the man - he refused to complain about the comments being published because he had said them and he meant them.

 

[robgmun]

Anyone from the 98% of normal humans who votes Conservative is voting against their own personal interest... please explain to me how quite so many people are so easily duped into voting against themselves.

Polls like this make me want to leave this forum again... but on the other hand... maybe one of you Cons voters can give me an actual insight into your reasoning past the attacks that are sure to ensue following this post.

Help me understand you.

Jesus this post is utterly sanctimonious, i vote Conservative because overall, taking all tax cuts and raises into account, i have benefited significantly in my take home pay over the years. End of

 

[robgmun]

Diane Abbott continues to get utterly savaged in interviews:

 

[Efour]

That's quite selfish but to be expected from a Tory voter. I'm alright jack kind of attitude.

 

[robgmun]

Need a ladder for that high horse of yours?

 

[Efour]

God I hate Diane Abbott lol.
Making her look like an idiot isn't hard, put this feels a bit hardwork. Yeah she messed up but pushing it that far is annoying.But don't let her be home security lol.