Office/Work Kitchen

[Avenged7Fold]

I know i started the thread but some of these posts still amaze me. I cant believe that there are large businesses that dont provide even coffee or tea to employees even when they have a kitchen area. The cost is minimal and regular hot beverages go a long way as far as employee comforts go. Someone earlier in the thread made a point that their company employees 100,000 people so it would be expensive but if you employed that many people, you would assume your business is successful enough that the cost is negligible but you have the buying power to reduce the cost to fractions of what normal size company pays per person.

I'm not saying everyone should get a £4 weak Costa coffee every 2 hours or a £2,000 commercial coffee machine but a tub of Nescafe gold blend a fortnight with a kettle is not exactly bank breaking for a 20 person room.

 

[Daaaavvveee]

We get free tea and coffee, all using filtered water (Zip Tap).
Free fruit every now and then.
Occasional pizzas for our team.

 

[Scam]

We do pretty well, our kitchens are nice.

- zip tap with instant hot water (and cold, duh)
- free fruit bowls
- teas (breakfast, earl grey, green, peppermint, lemon and ginger, fruit)
- instant coffee
- big generic coffee machine that does anything you want (cappuccino, lattes etc.)
- drinks machines (everything is free, selection changes but mostly coke, dr pepper, minutemaid. It actually does my head in as they voted recently on what to put in and it's mainly diet stuff now )
- fridges to put your own stuff in
- 3-4 microwaves per floor
- 2 snack machines (these cost)

What's quite exciting is that we bought the top floor in our building recently and they've turned half of it into a big casual coffee shop/chillout area with tables, sofas etc and amazing views across the city. It's huge. A really nice space. What's even better is that it has a fully-fledged coffee bar with a real espresso machine, real baristas serving and decent beans. It was going to be subsidised but due to a certain celebrity guest at one of our town hall's slightly taking the mickey out of us being "excited about your subsidised coffee" our chairman came back on stage and said basically "**** it, I'm the chairman, screw the finance guys, I say it''s free" That said, I would have preferred it to be subsidised as the queues at 10am are ridiculous! Nice coffee though.

I almost forgot, we have a whole floor for meeting rooms where there is a fully-functioning kitchen -- you can order anything from teas, coffees, drinks, to afternoon tea/cakes, cooked breakfast/lunch menus. It's free but get's charged back to your financial unit. The food is actually pretty good.

On top of that we have two screening rooms in our office and always have talent, press, publicity screenings happening so there's a lot of catering for them (via the kitchen mentioned above). Fortunately the guy who runs the screening rooms works in our team so we get a lot of leftovers. Coming in to a pile of bacon sandwiches is heaven

 

[johnny6]

We get

Filtered cold and room temp water.
PG Tips tea bags
Fruit teas (if that's your thing)
Hot chocolate
About half a dozen types of coffee
Milk both red and green top.

Odd weeks we get fruit or cakes. Plus the odd BBQ in the summer.

There are junk food vending machines plus microwaves and fridges of you want to bring your own food in.

There is also a 'subsidised' cafe in the building. I say subsidised recent price increases have made most items the same price as going to the shops however being on site makes it more convenient. The cafe sells breakfast (cereals, pastries, toast and full English on a Friday) and lunch (sandwiches, hot meals etc)

 

[Angilion]

so your telling me being seated, twitching a mouse staring at a pc screen is more healthy than walking around outside in the fresh air?

No. Your "reply" has no connection to the post I made.

If you care, I suggest you look at the medical work on the subject. The first modern medical paper on it was published ~1700 (Bernardino Ramazzini), the first sustained campaigning against it by doctors in this country was in the 1880s and there have been many studies and papers since then right up to a few years ago. Here's a quote from a government report in 1917:

The object of such a provision [providing adjustable seats to workers and the opportunity to use them] is not to secure that all work should be done seated, since a sedentary life has its own disadvantages, but rather that means should be provided for varying the position, wherever possible, and for occasional use when the work necessitates a standing posture.

It was enforced at the time because, as I said before, wartime was considered a strong enough reason to give efficiency of work a higher priority than inflicting harm on low status people solely to rub their faces in their inferior status. And it stopped being enforced after the war.

It's not a new idea or a disputed one. I've seen 3 doctors and a consultant and they all told me the same thing. It doesn't even require even cursory medical knowledge from reading medical papers - a little thought about the subject should be enough to realise that prolonged working in positions unsuited to human physiology is likely to be harmful.

Would you like a dozen references to medical papers on the subject? The only part of the issue that has been at all disputed by doctors in the last few centuries is whether prolonged standing can be a sole cause of death. The current conclusion is that while it definitely is a contributing factor to death it isn't a sole cause. It is a sole cause of chronic circulatory and musculo-skeletal problems and does cause death in conjunction with other medical problems.

 

[Angilion]

Actually sitting for hours is hugely detrimental to your health/musculoskeletal health. So a mixture of standing/sitting is ideal really.

How many desk workers do you know who are forbidden to stand at work? Required to remain seated for the entire time they're working? How about when they're using equipment designed to be used while standing? Do they have to stretch uncomfortably and dangerously to use it or are they allowed to stand, i.e. work in a position best suited to the task?

It's true that a mixture is better, but the two situations are significantly different.

I don't think I get the "status" symbol you're talking about with regards to sitting behind a desk.

Status generally defines whether or not you're forced to do all work while standing, even when using equipment designed to be used while seated. It's entirely about status. In my workplace, for example, there are three seats that employees are allowed to use. They are for the three managers, in their office. They have higher status, so they are allowed to work in a position better suited to human physiology - sitting when that is better, standing when that is better. It's only lower status people who are forced to work in ways unsuited to human physiology solely for the sake of harming them, even though they would work more efficiently in a different position. Enforcing status has an even higher priority than profit in many businesses in some countries, including the UK.

 

[Angilion]

we have a cold water tap and a not-so-cold water tap.

We have the opposite - a stone cold water tap and a scalding hot water tap. Literally scalding hot - it's at least 70C. It's tolerable for a few seconds when washing your hands and even that causes reddening and minor pain. You could make tea or coffee straight from the tap. Apparently it's to ensure that the water system is sterile and make Legionnaire's disease and suchlike impossible.

we also have one of those water boilers that boils the same water over and over again for hours, giving a nice metallic tasting hot beverage.

Don't say anything or they might charge you for the mineral supplements

 

[MooMoo444]

Do other places also have people who leave used teabags on the counter merely a foot or so away from the bin?

Leaving dirty bowls in the sink and expecting the pixies to sort it?

Go to put sugar or milk in their brew and somehow get it all over the counter?

I do wonder if people live like that at home.

 

[Jonny2284]

Yes, we have those too.

And my personal pet peeve, the ones who do get rid of their teabag by bouncing it off the wall and into the bin.

 

[Spuj]

I'm a civil servant, what is this?

We have a free water fountain...

Yep same over here.

We have Tea, Coffee and Biscuits because everyone in the team pays £1 a week to a chap who then supplies them as he runs the 'Tea Boat'.

 

[FishFluff]

I work for the NHS, so obviously we don't have any food/drink provided as keep your workforce fed and hydrated is a waste of taxpayer money. We have pretty reasonably equipped kitchens though with toasters/microwaves/fridges and plenty of seating.

Oh and we have a smattering of those fancy desks that you can raise to be standing height desks when you want to carry on with your work but realise you've been sat down for ages.

 

[Freefaller]

How many desk workers do you know who are forbidden to stand at work?

None - Working with various teams, companies and so on, there has always been options available. the only time where this was a trouble was when I was doing some work within a manufacturing environment, but even then the breaks were frequent, and welfare well catered for.

Required to remain seated for the entire time they're working? How about when they're using equipment designed to be used while standing? Do they have to stretch uncomfortably and dangerously to use it or are they allowed to stand, i.e. work in a position best suited to the task?

It's true that a mixture is better, but the two situations are significantly different.

If those conditions exist, you need to change them. Change the process not the people. If you know anything about Kaizen / Lean 6 Sigma, you'll know that all these things can be fixed. Or processes embedded to enhance work flow, but also improve working conditions. Certainly in heavily unionised industries, not that being in a union should allow greater opportunities - but often help change (though often stifle change too!!).

There are no absolutes in my experience, compromises and improvements and innovation can happen everywhere.

Status generally defines whether or not you're forced to do all work while standing, even when using equipment designed to be used while seated. It's entirely about status. In my workplace, for example, there are three seats that employees are allowed to use. They are for the three managers, in their office. They have higher status, so they are allowed to work in a position better suited to human physiology - sitting when that is better, standing when that is better. It's only lower status people who are forced to work in ways unsuited to human physiology solely for the sake of harming them, even though they would work more efficiently in a different position. Enforcing status has an even higher priority than profit in many businesses in some countries, including the UK.

Sounds like you work for an awful company. I've never come across any enforcing status as you mention in 20+ years.But perhaps that's because of the industries I've worked in?

 

[Angilion]

None - Working with various teams, companies and so on, there has always been options available.

Options which lower status workers don't get. So the two scenarios are not the same or even very similar.

the only time where this was a trouble was when I was doing some work within a manufacturing environment, but even then the breaks were frequent, and welfare well catered for.

The standard for breaks at the lower end of the job market now is the legal minimum of 20 minutes if and only if you work at least 6 hours continuously and I wouldn't be at all surprised if even that doesn't always happen. Working conditions at the lower end of the job market have decreased significantly in the last 10 years. My employer does conform to the legal minimum for breaks, but employers doesn't really have to. Laws are only meaningful if they're enforced.

If those conditions exist, you need to change them. Change the process not the people. If you know anything about Kaizen / Lean 6 Sigma, you'll know that all these things can be fixed. Or processes embedded to enhance work flow, but also improve working conditions. Certainly in heavily unionised industries, not that being in a union should allow greater opportunities - but often help change (though often stifle change too!!).

There are no absolutes in my experience, compromises and improvements and innovation can happen everywhere.

Your experience isn't the lower status end of the job market in the UK in 2017. Your ideas are ethical but not possible. Do you really think that millions of people are suffering at work (and outside of work, given that the resulting medical problems are chronic) by choice? If we could change society in that way, it would already have been changed. None of us like chronic pain and medical problems that reduce our quality of life and life expectancy.

Sounds like you work for an awful company. I've never come across any enforcing status as you mention in 20+ years.But perhaps that's because of the industries I've worked in?

The company I work for is better than many. I think you've probably not been working a low status job recently, if ever. You can see some aspects of it if you look, though. Go into a shop and see, for example, if people working the tills are allowed to sit. That's the most extreme case, since some places still allow it. Places that don't are hellbent on harming their low status workers at any cost. See if people who have to spend time kneeling and moving while kneeling on hard floors to stock shelves have knee protection. Even if you have no involvement other than as a potential customer, some aspects of the custom are visible.

It's much less bad for younger people, who are more durable and who recover much faster from the damage done during a shift. At 20, a person probably wouldn't hurt at all if they were short enough. At 40, it's a different story. At 50, it's a lot worse. At 60, well, I try not to think about that. All things pass - sooner or later I'll be retired or dead. Either way will get me out of it.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

We have the opposite - a stone cold water tap and a scalding hot water tap. Literally scalding hot - it's at least 70C. It's tolerable for a few seconds when washing your hands and even that causes reddening and minor pain. You could make tea or coffee straight from the tap. Apparently it's to ensure that the water system is sterile and make Legionnaire's disease and suchlike impossible.

It is common practice for some employers to run water boilers above 60C because that's the temperature which bacteria can't grow.

However, if the outlets are all flushed regularly (dead legs are the Achilles heel) and the company operates with a mains water feed then I don't see why the sinks aren't fitted with a TMV (thermostatic mixing valve) to reduce the end user point to 44C etc.

This is basic welfare (along with the ability to heat food, drinking water and sufficient number of toilets). Definitely worth raising with the employer

 

[Freefaller]

Options which lower status workers don't get. So the two scenarios are not the same or even very similar.

Nope - everyone got one. The only "status" was the directors who had their own offices - but frankly I don't see that as a status thing in the slightest. Offices are sometimes necessary.

The standard for breaks at the lower end of the job market now is the legal minimum of 20 minutes if and only if you work at least 6 hours continuously and I wouldn't be at all surprised if even that doesn't always happen. Working conditions at the lower end of the job market have decreased significantly in the last 10 years. My employer does conform to the legal minimum for breaks, but employers doesn't really have to. Laws are only meaningful if they're enforced.

Agreed about the enforcement of laws - but that's down to the management teams. As a senior manager its your responsibility to uphold those standards. As soon as you ignore the issue that becomes the standard. i.e. if you see someone chuck something at the bin, rather than putting it in the bin, and you walk away from it, that becomes the new acceptable standard. IT's about leading/working a the level you expect - peer pressure can help too, the more people work to a perceived standard of acceptability the more people will accept that level and work towards it. So it is your (everyone's) responsibility to raise the standards.

Your experience isn't the lower status end of the job market in the UK in 2017. Your ideas are ethical but not possible. Do you really think that millions of people are suffering at work (and outside of work, given that the resulting medical problems are chronic) by choice? If we could change society in that way, it would already have been changed. None of us like chronic pain and medical problems that reduce our quality of life and life expectancy.

I've experienced both, but you're right less so in the 2017 environment, though I do work and have worked in harsh environments at times. However, I don't ignore issues, I try and fix them, whether my direct responsibility or not I flag things up, and make a fuss if I feel it is necessary. But you're undoubtedly right, this is not the normal way people behave, people are too self serving. Working in very harsh environments we have a duty of care to our operatives/staff, I refuse to accept that there are not ways of making things better. But that's why I'm an organisational transformation leader - I refuse to accept the status quo.

The company I work for is better than many. I think you've probably not been working a low status job recently, if ever. You can see some aspects of it if you look, though. Go into a shop and see, for example, if people working the tills are allowed to sit. That's the most extreme case, since some places still allow it. Places that don't are hellbent on harming their low status workers at any cost. See if people who have to spend time kneeling and moving while kneeling on hard floors to stock shelves have knee protection. Even if you have no involvement other than as a potential customer, some aspects of the custom are visible.

I have actually done factory work, front line operative work, and so on - however not for years I admit. But I always do that to get a feel for what people are having to go through - how am I supposed to understand and engage with people if I'm not willing to do it myself? Every company I've worked for has been hellbent on looking after their staff at any cost. Making provisions for all sorts of conditions and types of people. There are of course those that purposely disrupt everything to make a point, and even in the heavily unionised industries I've worked in, there has been a good balance of improvement without it being a detriment to the operational efficacy of the company.

Speaking of supermarkets, I pulled in a manager when I saw one of their staff on their knees with no padding/knee protection. The week after they were all catered for. It's everyone's responsibility to stop and make a change - people are too involved in their own lives, worrying about themselves.

It's much less bad for younger people, who are more durable and who recover much faster from the damage done during a shift. At 20, a person probably wouldn't hurt at all if they were short enough. At 40, it's a different story. At 50, it's a lot worse. At 60, well, I try not to think about that. All things pass - sooner or later I'll be retired or dead. Either way will get me out of it.

If you feel that bad, either move job, challenge the status quo and do something about it, or don't moan!

 

[sports_brah]

Heavily subsidised restaurant here. Actually really nice food, to eat in or take away. Deli bar for sandwiches, salads, sushi etc. Only a couple Euro max. No complaints. Obviously tea coffee etc provided.

Seeing as I work longer hours than most, I think it's reasonable enough.

Before I started working in an IB/IM environment, I did ****** jobs here and there during uni. Some really terrible environments that would make me sad to think that lots of people have to work in that environment.

I def think there is a massive jump in terms of quality of life, and I think people can be quite innured to this especially the longer they work in an "office"

 

[opstrat]

we have 2 microwaves and a klix coffee machine that does tea coffee hot chocolate and 3 different soups. our employer gives us a key which gives us 5 cups a day.

 

[BigT]

Mid size IT company and we offer our staff free breakfast cereal, milk, eggs, coffee beans and a bean to cup machine, tea, kettle, microwave, fruit, beer, soft drinks, mineral water and spirits - although the spirits tend to get left alone unless there's an evening event in the office.

 

[Angilion]

It is common practice for some employers to run water boilers above 60C because that's the temperature which bacteria can't grow.

However, if the outlets are all flushed regularly (dead legs are the Achilles heel) and the company operates with a mains water feed then I don't see why the sinks aren't fitted with a TMV (thermostatic mixing valve) to reduce the end user point to 44C etc.

This is basic welfare (along with the ability to heat food, drinking water and sufficient number of toilets). Definitely worth raising with the employer

Not to me. I've become adept at the water dance, swishing back and forth between hot and cold Or I just wash my hands in cold water, which seems to be the norm. Cold water and soap works just fine as far as I know.

Fitting TMVs would cost money, so it won't be done unless it becomes necessary and it isn't.

 

[Angilion]

Nope - everyone got one. The only "status" was the directors who had their own offices - but frankly I don't see that as a status thing in the slightest. Offices are sometimes necessary.

I don't see an office as a status thing. Not inherently, anyway. It's possible to make almost anything a status thing, of course. Bigger office, nicer location, etc. But not inherently. As you say, offices are sometimes necessary.

Agreed about the enforcement of laws - but that's down to the management teams. As a senior manager its your responsibility to uphold those standards. As soon as you ignore the issue that becomes the standard. i.e. if you see someone chuck something at the bin, rather than putting it in the bin, and you walk away from it, that becomes the new acceptable standard. IT's about leading/working a the level you expect - peer pressure can help too, the more people work to a perceived standard of acceptability the more people will accept that level and work towards it. So it is your (everyone's) responsibility to raise the standards.

I think I might have briefly seen a couple of senior managers over the years. They're not on site. The managers on site have less and less autonomy all the time. They're good people and they do what they can, but their power is limited. It's a very large company.

Standards are set from the top down, not the bottom up. At the bottom, I might have some influence over people at the same level not using a bin properly. But the idea that I have any influence over working conditions is silly.

I've experienced both, but you're right less so in the 2017 environment, though I do work and have worked in harsh environments at times. However, I don't ignore issues, I try and fix them, whether my direct responsibility or not I flag things up, and make a fuss if I feel it is necessary. But you're undoubtedly right, this is not the normal way people behave, people are too self serving. Working in very harsh environments we have a duty of care to our operatives/staff, I refuse to accept that there are not ways of making things better. But that's why I'm an organisational transformation leader - I refuse to accept the status quo.

I have actually done factory work, front line operative work, and so on - however not for years I admit. But I always do that to get a feel for what people are having to go through - how am I supposed to understand and engage with people if I'm not willing to do it myself? Every company I've worked for has been hellbent on looking after their staff at any cost. Making provisions for all sorts of conditions and types of people. There are of course those that purposely disrupt everything to make a point, and even in the heavily unionised industries I've worked in, there has been a good balance of improvement without it being a detriment to the operational efficacy of the company.

Speaking of supermarkets, I pulled in a manager when I saw one of their staff on their knees with no padding/knee protection. The week after they were all catered for. It's everyone's responsibility to stop and make a change - people are too involved in their own lives, worrying about themselves.

Would you buy the company that employs me?

Note that the staff on their knees were not in a position to pull in a manager and get knee protection. That's not how it works. You were in that position. They weren't.

If you feel that bad, either move job, challenge the status quo and do something about it, or don't moan!

Moving job, if that was possible, would probably put me in a worse position. I'm still allowed a full time contract. I'm still allowed a bit more than the legal minimum paid holiday. Both those things are almost unheard of nowadays.

I'm not going to challenge the status quo. I need my job.

I'm not moaning. I'm writing the truth about working conditions in a thread about working conditions. It could be much worse - I could work for Sports Direct!