Paypal ripping me off ! please advise

[Avenged7Fold]

Why should their be any risk? If its a reputable seller surely they can prove the digital content was sent.

Can they prove that the codes were used by the buyer?

As i said, its clear that the seller has no protection prior to the sale. They set the terms, you can't decide to go against their terms and expect a payout if it goes wrong even if it is out of your control. I am not saying it is OPs fault, i am just saying PP are not obliged to pay the seller. The buyer's are protected under their agreement and so have a right to the refund in this scenario depending on whose fault the hacking was. Yes it is unfair but it is not deception on PP part.

that might be fair if there was some other issue like disputing the delivery of said goods - however the issue in this case is the buyer's accounts were hacked - surely that is an issue for PayPal or the buyer

The fact is that if another person had access to these buyers ebay accounts due to buyer negligence and the delivery method used is one that forfeits your seller protection by paypal and ebay, then Paypal in theory dont have to pay anyone back. Reality is that it is hard to prove it was down to the buyer's negligence (phishing scams or whatever) and much easier to dodge the seller's complaints due to their terms on conditions.

Not saying it is fair, just saying how it is. Yeah if you kicked up enough fuss eventually you might get somewhere but whether that is worth OPs £90 is another matter.

 

[dowie]

Well I think at the very least the OP should not pay PayPal for this supposed -£90 balance. I don't think he needs to kick up a fuss but rather he doesn't need to do anything at the moment.

 

[mossi123uk]

I once sold a xbox recorded delevery on ebay and the buyer said the item never came even tho it has there signature and it took me 3 months before paypal would give me my money...

 

[jasonsony735]

The main problem is he sold something your not meant to sell via that platform anyway. If he had sent the codes via the post with proof of the arrival they would not have refunded the money back.

Once the proof of delivery is there, even there customer service cannot do anything.

Like i said twice, if you do it the correct way then there are no issues. I have sold many many codes and had very few problems, the only one i had were when the bit of paper they were printed on didnt arrive from the post. I never had a problem with stolen accounts or when people claimed codes didnt work it didnt matter as long as the proof of delivery was there.

THIS IS NOT TRUE ! THE EBAY ACCOUNTS THAT PURCHASED MY CD KEYS WHERE APPRANTLY HACKED IN TOO ! HENCE THE REVERSAL ON THE PAYPAL TRANSACTIONS. IVE SOLD A PRODUCT AND PAYPAL HAVE TAKEN THE MONEY BACK FROM ME BECAUSE THEY CAN'T KEEP CUSTOMERS EBAY ACCOUNTS SAFE ! IF ANYONE IS IN THE WRONG IT SHOULD BE THEM NOT THE SELLER. IVE LOST OVER £100 - AS FAR AS WE KNOW THESE EBAY ACCOUNTS HAVE NOT BEEN HACKED AND THE BUYER IS LYING ! FROM WHAT HAS HAPPENED TOO ME IT LOOKS THAT WAY BUT I MAY BE WRONG.


THE WAY I SEE IT IS LIKE THIS - I WALK IN TO A SHOP AND BUY SOME GOODS - NEW SPEAKERS , 2 DAYS LATER THE SHOP WORKS OUT THE GOODS THEY HAVE SOLD ME ARE STOLEN AND THEN CHARGE ME !!! LOL

 

[zophiel]

you can shout all you want, the start and finish of it is you cannot sell digital items and expect any protection. Its all there in black and white just read the terms you agreed to when you listed your item.

how many times do you need showing that you were in the wrong? You needed to post the physical paper / card with the code on using a signed for service to be protected.

Then you are selling the physical card / paper with the code on, not the virtual items of a code.

I know this as i used to do it as part of my job, before i changed job the account had over 6000 positive feedback and thats only 1/3 of the sales that went through the account.

Seller protection requirements include:

• Ship the item using a qualified Shipping company according PayPal’s User Agreement to the address on the Transaction Details page.
  
• The item sold must be a physical, tangible item that can be shipped. This means intangible items such as digital goods and services aren’t covered.

The rest of the accounts being hacked etc are a separate issue, that wouldnt have made a difference if you had been a protected seller.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Well, you sold a product that forfeits their seller protection. You cant assume that the accounts were 'hacked' because of Paypals security flaws or because of the buyer's security flaws.

If this was sold as zophiel said, then the seller and buyer both have protection and since it is not worth paypal kicking up a fuss over, usually paypal just refunds the buyer themselves (if a petty amount) and not from the seller. Because you are not protected, you cannot claim as a seller.

 

[spoffle]

THIS IS NOT TRUE ! THE EBAY ACCOUNTS THAT PURCHASED MY CD KEYS WHERE APPRANTLY HACKED IN TOO ! HENCE THE REVERSAL ON THE PAYPAL TRANSACTIONS. IVE SOLD A PRODUCT AND PAYPAL HAVE TAKEN THE MONEY BACK FROM ME BECAUSE THEY CAN'T KEEP CUSTOMERS EBAY ACCOUNTS SAFE ! IF ANYONE IS IN THE WRONG IT SHOULD BE THEM NOT THE SELLER. IVE LOST OVER £100 - AS FAR AS WE KNOW THESE EBAY ACCOUNTS HAVE NOT BEEN HACKED AND THE BUYER IS LYING ! FROM WHAT HAS HAPPENED TOO ME IT LOOKS THAT WAY BUT I MAY BE WRONG.


THE WAY I SEE IT IS LIKE THIS - I WALK IN TO A SHOP AND BUY SOME GOODS - NEW SPEAKERS , 2 DAYS LATER THE SHOP WORKS OUT THE GOODS THEY HAVE SOLD ME ARE STOLEN AND THEN CHARGE ME !!! LOL

You haven't lost any money. Abandon your PayPal account. You don't actually owe them anything. Think of it as them asking you for it.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

THIS IS NOT TRUE ! THE EBAY ACCOUNTS THAT PURCHASED MY CD KEYS WHERE APPRANTLY HACKED IN TOO ! HENCE THE REVERSAL ON THE PAYPAL TRANSACTIONS. IVE SOLD A PRODUCT AND PAYPAL HAVE TAKEN THE MONEY BACK FROM ME BECAUSE THEY CAN'T KEEP CUSTOMERS EBAY ACCOUNTS SAFE ! IF ANYONE IS IN THE WRONG IT SHOULD BE THEM NOT THE SELLER. IVE LOST OVER £100 - AS FAR AS WE KNOW THESE EBAY ACCOUNTS HAVE NOT BEEN HACKED AND THE BUYER IS LYING ! FROM WHAT HAS HAPPENED TOO ME IT LOOKS THAT WAY BUT I MAY BE WRONG.


THE WAY I SEE IT IS LIKE THIS - I WALK IN TO A SHOP AND BUY SOME GOODS - NEW SPEAKERS , 2 DAYS LATER THE SHOP WORKS OUT THE GOODS THEY HAVE SOLD ME ARE STOLEN AND THEN CHARGE ME !!! LOL

herp derp.

you aren't allowed to sell digital goods on ebay. what is it that you don't understand about this? it's a physical goods site. where you have to post said item in a tracked manner.

sell your digital goods elsewhere using bank transfer only such as a forum.

count yourself lucky it's only £100 and not £10,000

 

[jasonsony735]

So how do you explain the Buyer collect option on EBAY ? I'm pretty sure on big goods some people will turn up and collect from a buyers homes and pay with paypal ! what is the difference to me doing this and handing over a game to sending it over a message ? NON at all ! basicly I'm being S**** over by Paypal that shouldn't be a sellers problem.


Someone could hack someone's Ebay account , turn up at my home and then phone paypal and say they no knowing about the transaction , again this should be Ebay & Paypals problem not mine.

 

[zophiel]

do you really not read anything people have written?

just go back 5 pages and start again.

 

[spoffle]

So how do you explain the Buyer collect option on EBAY ? I'm pretty sure on big goods some people will turn up and collect from a buyers homes and pay with paypal ! what is the difference to me doing this and handing over a game to sending it over a message ? NON at all ! basicly I'm being S**** over by Paypal that shouldn't be a sellers problem.


Someone could hack someone's Ebay account , turn up at my home and then phone paypal and say they no knowing about the transaction , again this should be Ebay & Paypals problem not mine.

If you're having an item collected, you're gonna likely take payment by cash, not PayPal.

Anyway, it's irrelevant. You can choose to not pay PayPal and everything will continue on as normal, except you'll need a new PayPal account.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Someone could hack someone's Ebay account , turn up at my home and then phone paypal and say they no knowing about the transaction , again this should be Ebay & Paypals problem not mine.

But you would be covered and so PP would let you keep the money and refund teh account owner out of their pocket. You are no covered because of the complicated nature involved with digital currency. It is easy to point fingers and not worth to chase around for them so they disallow digital selling. You can sell a bit of paper with a digital key, but it is the paper you are buying and so things are pretty clear cut if there is an issue.

At the end of the day, you used paypal for something they do not protect on. You got burned by a scammer and PP are not required to let you have the money. If you kick up enough of a stink, over the phone and threaten them with this and that, then they may eventually pay you back just to not have to deal with you.

 

[Sui]

Go read my reply, if you have an unsolvable dispute with paypal, the financial ombudsman service will step in and make a judgement.

If Paypal are reversing the sale because "unauthorised access" then it is not your problem, regardless of the nature of item sold. If the dispute was because goods weren't received it would be different.

I've been there, I sold a WoW account. Yes it's against what they'd say you can sell, but it was still ruled in my favour.

 

[omnomnom]

you can shout all you want, the start and finish of it is you cannot sell digital items and expect any protection. Its all there in black and white just read the terms you agreed to when you listed your item.

how many times do you need showing that you were in the wrong? You needed to post the physical paper / card with the code on using a signed for service to be protected.

Then you are selling the physical card / paper with the code on, not the virtual items of a code.

I know this as i used to do it as part of my job, before i changed job the account had over 6000 positive feedback and thats only 1/3 of the sales that went through the account.



The rest of the accounts being hacked etc are a separate issue, that wouldnt have made a difference if you had been a protected seller.

If you list the items as Digital Goods then the buyer will have a job on doing a charge back...its nothing to do with putting it int he post. Looks like he didn't list it properly and the buyer is having his pants down.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

So how do you explain the Buyer collect option on EBAY ? I'm pretty sure on big goods some people will turn up and collect from a buyers homes and pay with paypal ! what is the difference to me doing this and handing over a game to sending it over a message ? NON at all ! basicly I'm being S**** over by Paypal that shouldn't be a sellers problem.


Someone could hack someone's Ebay account , turn up at my home and then phone paypal and say they no knowing about the transaction , again this should be Ebay & Paypals problem not mine.

if you sell something for collection. then you message them winner and say don't pay by paypal. cash on collection.

that way you don't pay any ebay fees or paypal fees. you also cannot be scammed. lots of idiots get scammed by allowing people to pay by paypal for collection goods.

say i pay you by paypal. i then come and collect.

i can then open a case and say you never gave me it and i want my money back. paypal ask you for proof of delivery. you cannot provide it. refund to me.

you seriously do not know anything about buying or selling. so i suggest you go off and learn.

 

[Diagro]

If you want to sell those types of things you do the following:

Write down the code.

Post the code via tracked delivery.

Become protected by the Paypal Protection system.

Make sure to list it as a letter containing the codes.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

Can they prove that the codes were used by the buyer?

Can you prove it was sent to the buyer is the thing you should look for. Just because the buyer might not have used it doesn't mean he never received it.

But anyway... I have just realised the OPs issue is that PayPal or the Buyer are saying their account was hacked. In that case why should the OP cover the issue out of their pocket?

 

[Avenged7Fold]

why should the OP cover the issue out of their pocket?

Because the transaction was void and so charge was reversed. According to PP nothing physical was sent and so the seller is not protected from scamming or whatever, regardless of fault. PP are covering their asses by writing in that you cannot sell intangible items without sending physical proof. I am not saying it is fair, just that this is an unsurprising result given their terms and conditions.